First Center-seam Mocs

[Soinkuhndog]

I just finished my first center-seam mocs from a pattern. I'm pretty sure I followed pattern and directions, but the seam under the toes seems to really be irritating. This pattern has the seam starting under the toes. Is this normal? Where should the seam start? Is there a more comfortable PC pattern for, say, Indiana Territory?

Thanks,
So. IN. Kuhndog

 

[Charles D. Prokopp]

When I make mocs, I always cement an inner sole into them, that takes care of center seams...and the tenderfoot syndrome. With center seams, I also like to stitch on an outer sole, too. That seam under the toe is vulnerable and a real weak point. The outer sole usually is gathered about 3/4" up the side of the foot all around.

 

[LRB]

That pattern is not really correct. Correct center seams are gathered, and puckered so that the seam is not under the toes, then finished on out. The pattern will not have that V cut at the toes. However, in the past, I have worn many made from your pattern with good comfort by just wearing socks, and it often helps to pound that part of the seam with a hammer before sewing past that area. There was a website that showed the correct pattern, but for some reason I cannot bring it up. If I can find it, I will post it for you.

 

[LRB]

Here is a photo of about what they should look like. Note the puckering at the toes.

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[pegro1]

Wow, Wick nice pic, those moc's look thin but it could be the pic.

 

[omarick1948]

I know that it is the wrong time of year, but you can put your moc's on and step in a creek or tub of water and wear them till dry!....the leather usually stretches enough to make them more comfortable.

 

[J.D.]

That pattern is not really correct. Correct center seams are gathered, and puckered so that the seam is not under the toes, then finished on out. The pattern will not have that V cut at the toes. However, in the past, I have worn many made from your pattern with good comfort by just wearing socks, and it often helps to pound that part of the seam with a hammer before sewing past that area. There was a website that showed the correct pattern, but for some reason I cannot bring it up. If I can find it, I will post it for you.

Here ya go. The Southern NDN Department page.
This pattern is correct for all center seam mocs, and not just southern mocs.
[url] http://southernindiandept.org/mocpattern.htm[/url]

 

[LRB]

Thanks JD. I have that on my favorites, but it won't come up for some reason.

 

[Soinkuhndog]

I wish that mine looked that good. I see what you mean about the seam on the top (puckered) instead of the bottom. Oh well, live and learn. I can now certainly see how the evolution of a "style" happens: Someone makes moccasins that kill his feet and then he keeps improving on it until he comes up with a winner.

Thanks,
So. IN. Kuhndog

 

[J.D.]

I wish that mine looked that good. I see what you mean about the seam on the top (puckered) instead of the bottom. Oh well, live and learn. I can now certainly see how the evolution of a "style" happens: Someone makes moccasins that kill his feet and then he keeps improving on it until he comes up with a winner.

Thanks,
So. IN. Kuhndog

I suspect that the style with the seam under the toe is reverse evolution. IMHO, that style developed in the 1960's becasue someone did not do their homework to learn how to make a proper pair of mocs....and too many people have suffered for it.

 

If the center seam moccasin is made right you won't be walking on a seam. It is pulled up over the tip of the toe as you pucker and sew the seam.

 

Here are some my sister made from brain tanned deer skin for me. Sunday go ta meetin' mocs. :grin:

These are the same pattern as the trail mocs above. The seam is covered with beadwork. No seam showing at the toe.

 

[mazo kid]

Cooner, both sets of mocs are great. Thanks for sharing. Emery

 

[Claude Mathis]

Beautiful stitching job. :thumbsup:

 

I suspect that the style with the seam under the toe is reverse evolution. IMHO, that style developed in the 1960's becasue someone did not do their homework to learn how to make a proper pair of mocs....and too many people have suffered for it.

With respect - there are existing pre-1900 NDN made moccasins made with that under the toe seam. Check through the various museum sites such as AMNH/Anthro[url] http://anthro.amnh.org/[/url] and others and you will see some going back at least to the late 1870's. While this doesn't document them to the 18th or even the early 19th Century it does make them much older than the 1960's.

here's but one example - my notes say they are circa 1880:

anthro-amnh

 

Yes, but Gray Wolf, those were not made by premiere moccasin makers. Those were made by some off tribe. :grin: BUY LENAPE!!! :rotf:

 

[Claude Mathis]

With respect - there are existing pre-1900 NDN made moccasins made with that under the toe seam.

Ireland 700-900 A.D.
[url] http://housebarra.com/EP/ep06/08shoe2.html[/url]

 

[Desert Rat]

With respect - there are existing pre-1900 NDN made moccasins made with that under the toe seam.

Ireland 700-900 A.D.
[url] http://housebarra.com/EP/ep06/08shoe2.html[/quote][/url]


That is really neat, it kinda goes to show there are only so many ways to do something... that works anyway.