First muzzleloader advice

[derek58]

Hey guys, first poster here. I know there are probably lots of these posts out there, but I looked and couldn't find the info I really needed, so I figured I'd just ask.

I've been muzzleloader hunting a few times, and have always carried my cousin's spare rifle which is a TC .50 in-line. It was a decent rifle. Light and handy, and I dropped a whitetail doe with it at 106 yards. But now I want my own rifle and I want something traditional. I went to my local black powder shop, which is an excellent store, and handled a bunch of the production rifles there, and I was honestly pretty underwhelmed. While granted, most of my experience is with guns of the 20th century and later, the wood stocks felt like cheap wood, and the actions/metalwork was "meh". I have an Uberti 1873 lever gun which I find to have extraordinary craftsmanship and beautiful wood, but none of the production rifles I handled, not even the Pedersoli's, seemed to come remotely close to that quality level. Am I alone in this sentiment?

At the end of the day, I'm looking for a quality traditional rifle in .50, set up for hunting (I'm still debating between fast vs slow twist, as I live in Oregon where you can only use solid lead projectiles for hunting), with attractive wood, good accuracy, and good fit/finish. Under $1200 would be ideal. Do you guys have any recommendations?

 

[hanshi]

Welcome to the forum, derek58. Check the classifieds as there are some very fine used rifles for sale. The prices are more reasonable than getting a new one. Many of these were built by respected builders.

 

[derek58]

Hey there, thanks for the quick response. I'll look around there, thanks for the tip.

I just find it odd that there doesn't seem to be much of a market for nicer production rifles. It seems like there's budget (I'm not saying they're bad guns) and then there's multi-thousand-dollar custom rifles. Or is there something I'm missing? I'm pretty new to the scene so please pardon my ignorance here. It's a steep learning curve haha

 

[cynthialee]

For a really nice quality true to period sidelock you won't find much available in the new gun market.
Most companies have gone over to the dark side.

If you have the money, there are highly skilled rifle builders these fellas can point you too who can make just what you are looking for if you have the $ in your account.

Now if you don't have the money needed to buy one of these fine recreations of history; then might I suggest tracking down the gun parts and taking the time to meticulously build a piece of art?

 

[Tom Compton]

Look at some of the vendors offering guns "in the white". A little time sanding and finishing and you're right in there.

I haven't seen one of his but heard good things about Jim Kibler's offerings. Also Tip Curtis.
TC

 

[cynthialee]

40 Flint has offered solid advice.

Some of the nicest guns I have seen came from in the white and kit guns.

Some attention to the details of the fit of stuff and a few well placed embellishments and you can have a real eye catcher at the range or in the field.

 

[bubba.50]

if you want a nice gun with good fit & finish and quality wood & components to take right out of the box & go huntin' you should check out the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. it also comes in the Great Plains Hunter fast twist version. and with the purchase of an extra barrel you can both options in one gun.

and welcome aboard.

 

[russellshaffer]

Check out these folks. They are in Springfield right next door to you. http://www.thegunworks.com/GunIndex.cfm

 

[cynthialee]

They are not making the GPR as well as they used to. That is why I didn't recommend one out the gate.

 

[derek58]

Is there a difference between an in the white gun and a kit gun? All I've seen are kits? Thanks for the tips!

 

[derek58]

Of all the production guns I looked at, that one was probably my favorite, but I think I would want something one step up from that, ideally. (If there is such a thing)

 

[derek58]

That's the store that I went to that I alluded to in the OP. They're awesome. I got some really good info there. Currently though, they pretty much only have production guns and custom guns. There are a few kit builds there that I have my eye on, but they're all in .54 at this time. Fortunately they put all of their stock on armslist, so I'm keeping an eye on what comes in to the shop. Great people though

 

[Zonie]

Is there a difference between an in the white gun and a kit gun? All I've seen are kits? Thanks for the tips!

A "in the white" gun has been made by someone, or a company and is a working gun that does not have any staining or finishing done to the wood or barrel.
Some companies like TVM offer guns in the white.

Because the barrel finish, and the sanding, staining and application of stock finishes has not been done they usually cost less than a fully finished gun from the same source.
The time to finish the guns varies but something like 8 to 16 hours of actual working time would be a reasonable amount of time.

A kit gun from a large maker like Traditions, Pedersoli or others is just that.
A collection of finished or semi finished parts that can be assembled by anyone with some talent in maybe 16 to 32 hours.

These "Kit guns" from those makers should not be confused with the "gun kits" sold by the small muzzleloader parts companies like Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply, Chambers and others.
The "kits" sold by them consist of raw castings and partially shaped wood stocks.
They require a knowledge of layout, drilling, tapping, filing, wood shaping and more, as well as the amount of time needed to apply a finish to the barrel and stock.
One can figure they will need to work on one of these "kits" anywhere from 90 to 180 hours depending on their skills and what they want the finished gun to look like.

 

[derek58]

Is there a difference between an in the white gun and a kit gun? All I've seen are kits? Thanks for the tips!

A "in the white" gun has been made by someone, or a company and is a working gun that does not have any staining or finishing done to the wood or barrel.
Some companies like TVM offer guns in the white.

Because the barrel finish, and the sanding, staining and application of stock finishes has not been done they usually cost less than a fully finished gun from the same source.
The time to finish the guns varies but something like 8 to 16 hours of actual working time would be a reasonable amount of time.

A kit gun from a large maker like Traditions, Pedersoli or others is just that.
A collection of finished or semi finished parts that can be assembled by anyone with some talent in maybe 16 to 32 hours.

These "Kit guns" from those makers should not be confused with the "gun kits" sold by the small muzzleloader parts companies like Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply, Chambers and others.
The "kits" sold by them consist of raw castings and partially shaped wood stocks.
They require a knowledge of layout, drilling, tapping, filing, wood shaping and more, as well as the amount of time needed to apply a finish to the barrel and stock.
One can figure they will need to work on one of these "kits" anywhere from 90 to 180 hours depending on their skills and what they want the finished gun to look like.

Thank you for the thorough explanation! That makes a lot of sense. I'll definitely check out those options. Just looking at the TVM, they seem to have some really cool stuff! I appreciate the help!

 

[azmntman]

Look at some of the vendors offering guns "in the white". A little time sanding and finishing and you're right in there.

I haven't seen one of his but heard good things about Jim Kibler's offerings. Also Tip Curtis.
TC

:thumbsup:

/\ This, cant go wrong, choose yer shade, blued or browned, you'll have a hand in it and it will make you a happy man.

 

[AZbpBurner]

That's the store that I went to that I alluded to in the OP. They're awesome. I got some really good info there. Currently though, they pretty much only have production guns and custom guns. There are a few kit builds there that I have my eye on, but they're all in .54 at this time. Fortunately they put all of their stock on armslist, so I'm keeping an eye on what comes in to the shop. Great people though

Don't discount the .54 cal. I have both .54's and .50's in both caplock and flint & find that, without exception, I get better accuracy at distance with my .54's. The.54 is easier to shoot & easier to work up a precision load; it seems more forgiving than .50 cal over a wider range of powder loads.

 

[derek58]

Don't discount the .54 cal. I have both .54's and .50's in both caplock and flint & find that, without exception, I get better accuracy at distance with my .54's. The.54 is easier to shoot & easier to work up a precision load; it seems more forgiving than .50 cal over a wider range of powder loads.

From what I've read and discussed with others though, the .50 has cheaper ammo (and more variety, but that's less important in a state that only allows lead for hunting), a higher velocity, and a longer range than the .54. Are you finding large differences in accuracy between the two calibers, or just that the .54 consistently performs a bit better?

 

[Pete44ru]

Welcome to the fire, Derek !

Power in frontstuffers comes with caliber/bore - the larger, the heavier (boolit) - which is what makes a .54 more powerful than a .50, and a .50 more powerful than (say) a .45.

Their inventory keeps changing, but you might sooner or later find what you're seeking at the Track of the Wolf's new & used gun sections.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Category.aspx/485

 

[derek58]

Welcome to the fire, Derek !

Power in frontstuffers comes with caliber/bore - the larger, the heavier (boolit) - which is what makes a .54 more powerful than a .50, and a .50 more powerful than (say) a .45.

Their inventory keeps changing, but you might sooner or later find what you're seeking at the Track of the Wolf's new & used gun sections.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Category.aspx/485[/quote]

Thanks a bunch! I'll definitely keep an eye on that!

 

[rodwha]

When I first looked at muzzleloading rifles I also noticed the wider array of projectiles and accessories for the .50 cal over any other. And to be honest I wasn't too sure of a conical much less a ball and thought I'd likely go the more modern route, though many people showed me with their results how the modern way of looking at this doesn't really apply.

I had bought my Lyman Deerstalker in .50 cal. It's been a good rifle but if I were to do it over again I'd have chosen the .54 for certain. It's a little less effected by wind drift and has a heck of a lot more thump. Not much in Texas I'd really need the thump of a .54 but why not? And I just may get an opportunity to hunt for large game, which I figured I'd switch to a conical for in my .50, but a ball in .54 cal isn't a sissy and a conical is just much bigger of a hole really.