First Muzzleloader

[maniac424]

I'm about to order my first ML and have decided on the Lyman Great Plains Percussion Rifle in either the .50 or .54 cal. While doing my research I read on a couple of sites, where the recoil of a .54 BP was being discussed, that some posters actually mentioned the 30-06 recoil in the same sentence. Seriously and if so is this just with the heavier conicals? I have not done a whole lot of shooting, but I did have a chance to fire a number of 180gr & 150gr rounds from a Springfield 03 on a bench rest and I was not prepared for the recoil from those 180s. After 3 rounds, I decided it was someone elses turn. :surrender: Later on, when the 180gr rounds were all gone I gave it another shot and fired off about a dozen of the 150gr rounds which were no where near as punishing.
I'm only planning on firing patched balls, so can someone tell me if I really should be concerned with the .54 cal's recoil, or were those posts mentioning the 30-06 just trying to be funny?

 

[bpollock_sr]

I wouldn't be too concerned about the recoil.ML's don't have the sharp punishing recoil of the big centerfires. The Lyman is a good sturdy rifle with enough weight to dampen the recoil of even heavy bp loads.Also you can tailor your loads to whatever you are comfortable with, and still have an accurate and effective rifle.

 

[Lonegun1894]

Like the post above said, tailor it to whatever you want and you still have a very good rifle. My .54 is the flint version, and I dont think you have anything to worry about. I read some similar posts after I already had a .54 and a .30-06, so got curious. I did achieve what felt like equal recoil in both guns, but the .54 powder load to get there was "slightly" heavier than what Lyman recommends to get there with a PRB. First off, I do NOT recommend this and will not post the loads used, and second, the accuracy was a useless joke, and nothing like the rifle regularly gives me. Stay with normal loads and work up to whatever you feel comfortable with, which will increase over time if you feel the need to increase your load, but keep in mind that the PRB is a VERY effective projectile once it meets flesh and high velocity is not needed, regardless of what the current gun rags try to sell us. I'd say quit worrying and get whichever caliber you prefer for your uses, but please disregard recoil in your decision making process. My .54 using my normal 80grs of FFFg recoils more like my .30-30 Winchester 94, if that gives you a better comparison. I won't say it's completely recoil-less, but assuming you weigh at least 125-150lbs and have no shoulder injuries to be concerned with, the recoil is light enough to be completely ignored.

 

[roger fisher]

You can start with a small load, maby 40 grains at which there will be almost no recoil and work your way up to a good hunting load. I use 70 grais 2ff in my 54 for most targer shooting and 95 2ff for deer hunting.Ive never shot a round ball projectile out of any muzzleloader that gave me the recoil of a 30-06. Perhaps the heavier conicals would I dont know, i've never used them. A round ball is extremely effective on whitetail deer. The fuuny thing is ,if your hunting, the adrenaline is pumping so hard you wont feel recoil anyway !

 

[redneck]

i am highly reciol sensitive. but i shoot a 58 hawken with 570 rb and 95 grs 2f shutzen powder with no problems

 

[54ball]

I have a GPR in .54 and it is a pleasure. The standard GPR is 1-66 twist desinged for a patched round ball. About the only conical I would try in it is a .54 hollow based minnie.
The .530-.535 prb is an excellant round and will take virtually every game animal in the US.
I hunt deer my load is .530 or .535 prb over 80-90grns 2ffg. It is a pleasure to shoot.
I shot a TC with the same powder charge under a maxi ball. That Renegade should come with a rag to wipe the snot off the barrel after firing. I know it was a conical but it should not have been that big of a difference. The GPR with same charge was pleasant. This is due to stock design. The TC is straight stocked so it has more felt recoil.
With that said a GPR will bite you if you fire it off your shoulder. It, with it's 19th century cresent butt is designed to be fired off hand meaning off the upper arm or ball of the shoulder like most rifles of the era.

.50 is good but I like 54balls.
If you go with a GPR, to save some grief in the long run, remove the adjustable sight and use the primitive rear sight that also comes with the rifle. Once its set, it's set. Not so with that adjustable.

 

[Linc]

I think one of the key words you mentioned was bench rest. Unlesss you are sitting totally upright, shouldering as you would off-hand shooting, the gun will punish you. Shooting off-hand is less punishing. Gun weight also has a lot of to do with felt recoil. The heavier the gun the less felt recoil. Light weight just the opposite. I used to have a .54cal that I could shoot all day/everyday with 120gr of powder and a 435gr maxi-hunter.(I wish I never sold it ) I have a .50cal Trad. Deerhunter that beats the bejezus out of me with 110gr of powder and a 385gr Great Plains conical. The difference is around 2-3 lbs in rifle weight. The .54cal also fit me better which I also imagine played a part in felt recoil.

 

[smokymountainmike]

Maniac, I have a 54 cal GPR. I bought this rifle years ago to hunt deer and hogs. These are well made rifles and they are accurate. I wouldn't be to concerned about recoil all that much. The GPR is heavy enough to soak up most of the recoil. My rifle shoots tight groups with a 530 ball and a .15 patch. I use 110 grs of Goex FFG when hunting and 60 grs when target shooting. You do realize that one muzzleloader aint enough get ready to be addicted.

 

[Pacobillie]

I own a .54 Lyman trade rifle. Shooting PRBs over 85 grains of FFFG BP or 70 grains T7 FFFG, recoil is not an issue and definitely less than a 30-06.

With 440 grains conical bullets, it is an issue indeed and actually greater than a 30-06.

So, if you stick with PRBs, you should be a happy camper.

 

[Matt85]

theres no way a 54 cal is going to have a recoil like a 30-06. i own a 30-06 and while i dont have a 54 cal to compare it to, i do have a 69 cal that fires 490 grain round balls. the recoil on the 69 cal is serious when loaded heavy but is still nothing like a 30-06.

black powder doesnt recoil the same way smokeless powder does. black powder tends to be more of a "push" then the sharp "jerk" of smokeless powder.

 

[Pacobillie]

theres no way a 54 cal is going to have a recoil like a 30-06. i own a 30-06 and while i dont have a 54 cal to compare it to, i do have a 69 cal that fires 490 grain round balls. the recoil on the 69 cal is serious when loaded heavy but is still nothing like a 30-06.

Your .69 is probably a heavier rifle than the typical 30-06. Weight of the rifle diminishes felt recoil!

black powder doesnt recoil the same way smokeless powder does. black powder tends to be more of a "push" then the sharp "jerk" of smokeless powder.

Agreed!

 

[Matt85]

Your .69 is probably a heavier rifle than the typical 30-06. Weight of the rifle diminishes felt recoil!

yep, its a 10 pound rifle. however the OP is asking about a Lyman plains rifle which is no light weight either at around 9 pounds.

i should add, my first ML was a 50 cal. not because the 54 cal was heavier on recoil or inferior in any way to the 50 cal but because at the time i didnt smelt my own balls. 50 cal balls are cheaper then 54 cal balls.

 

[Wayne/Al]

As most have already said,recoil is not a issue with the GPR. It is more of a shove than a bone jaring kick you get with some 30.06. I shoot my GPR .54 with around 90 grains of 3 F and dont even notice the recoil. Go ahead and get it and enjoy.

Wayne/Al

 

[maniac424]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. The .54 was what I was originally leaning towards getting, so I'll stick with that choice.

 

[rkite]

Second on the .54 GPR. I have had mine since 1993 and it still shoots great. Very accurate with .530 round balls and .018 patches. Hunt tested! It lays down deer, turkey and squirrels with no issues. If you do not like the recoil you can reduce the charge a bit. I run 80 grains of 3F but there is no reason you can not run 70 3F or 80 of 2f. Mine is equally as accurate with 70 or 80 grains. The .54 GPR is a little lighter gun than the .50 GPR (Same gun with larger hole in the barrel) but still a heavy gun.

 

[hanshi]

IMHO you can ignore recoil. The only time I even take notice of recoil is when I'm on the bench and leaning into a large bore or light rifle; and even then it's only and after thought. Off a bench I honestly can't tell the recoil difference between a .32 and a .62.

 

[AllenHawken]

I shoot a .54 caliber Hawken and only notice the recoil (and the bruises) at 70 grains and higher BP FFg load when shooting multiple rounds at the range. So I backed down to 60 grains BP FFg for range shooting. 80 grains BP FFg for hunting where I don't care so much about recoil.

 

[Zonie]

While doing my research I read on a couple of sites, where the recoil of a .54 BP was being discussed, that some posters actually mentioned the 30-06 recoil in the same sentence.

Giving them the benefit of the doubt they were probably talking about shooting heavy slugs over large powder loads.
At least one 510 grain slug in a .54 can produce over 2600 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.
That is more than a .30-06 shooting a 180 grain bullet at 2400 fps which is not out of the question for one of those modern contraptions.

The way a black powder gun recoils is different though so for most folks, the higher muzzle energy from the black powder rifle will feel like a mighty hard push rather than the sharp jolt of the 06.

For even the most powerful patched roundball loads in a .54 muzzle energies around 1700 ft/lbs can be reached but this is only with a max powder load and this is less than a .30-06 shooting a 150 grain bullet.

For hunting with a muzzleloader shooting patched roundballs they need to remember the massive size of our roundballs is larger than many modern guns bullets will ever expand to and it is this large size that causes so much destruction in a game animal. To add to the effectiveness of a lead roundball, they usually expand when they hit something, often reaching over 3/4 of an inch in diameter.

 

[dbutch]

GPR in 50 cal. will weight slightly more than a 54 due to heavier barrel..You can always add weight to a rifle. solid brass ramrod.etc
The issue for me was the but plate shape.
shoot from the bench only when fine tuning sights and loads.
Felt recoil will be less off hand..While at the moment of truth hunting I don't feel a thing.
Work your loads up till you start to lose accuracy.
my happy load was 75 gr. fff goex .020 ticking patch on top of an oxyoke wool wad-bore button. Hoppe's lube...Good luck....dan

 

[William O.]

As has been mentioned, I would go with the .54 because the barrel will be slightly lighter than the 50 cal model. I have owned and shot both and for me, the .54 just makes for a better balance plus with a well placed shot it will take down most critters on this continent. Now, at least around here, the .50 is more popular and the black powder section of the local gun stores always seem to have something for it while the selection of .54 accessories is a little thin or sold out. Either way you can't go wrong with the GPR as your first muzzle loader. Good luck and let us know what you choose. Oh, and since the GPR has a slower 1:66 rate of twist (ROT) you will want to start with patched round ball (PRB). If you decide that you must shoot conicals you can get the Great Plains Hunter barrel which drops right in to you existing stock and has a nice fast ROT for accuracy