First shot from clean barrel
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H. E. Schwalm
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Thank you. Will try it.
hanshi
Cannon
Very interesting discussion. For one reason or another my first shot from a clean barrel usually defines the group. It's almost always right there in the same group with the next four. I am at a loss to explain why some do and some don't. This can be a characteristic of smokeless rifles, too. Alchemy?
H. E. Schwalm
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Brought the load down to 50 gr (from 75). Hit 5" low at 6 o"clock..the other three an inch to the left a tight group. Rekon I have to file another 32nd off the front sight. Thank you. This will also save me some BP money.
I have found that if the patch and ball is tight enough then the powder burn is cleaner leaving less residue in the barrel between shots my first shot is the same as the next when I clean after each shot this keeps the barrel in the same shape every time. This is what has worked for me :thumbsup:
paulvallandigham
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The most common reason that a "first" shot from a clean barrel strikes a different POI is a poorly bedded barrel and/or tang. :hmm: :thumbsup:
The Second most common reason is not using a thick enough patch to fill the grooves of the rifle adequately. :hmm: :surrender: This is most likely the reason when subsequent shot Strike HIGH on the target, after the barrel is fowled with that first shot. :hatsoff:
The Second most common reason is not using a thick enough patch to fill the grooves of the rifle adequately. :hmm: :surrender: This is most likely the reason when subsequent shot Strike HIGH on the target, after the barrel is fowled with that first shot. :hatsoff:
kevin beers
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I tried everything imaginable to use to get the first shot to be same as rest.Drove me nuts I use a fouling shot before I go hunting 20 gr and a patch .Then I run a clean patch with solvent and a dry one.Might not be best way but works for me cause I clean it regardless when I get home.
matt denison
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.."The most common reason that a "first" shot from a clean barrel strikes a different POI is a poorly bedded barrel and/or tang."
:bull:
That statement makes absolutely no sense, Paul. How can a "poorly bedded barrel" continue to shoot tight groups after the first shot? It's the difference between clean and fouled that moves the group. Aren't you readiing what the lads are saying?
I have a very well built, accurate rifle, .54 cal, 42" Colerain barrel. There is NO problem with the bedding or anything else on this rifle. I shoot it offhand on trailwalks. Typically the first shot on trailwalks is the tie breaker which is a 3/4" dot in the middle of a 5 X 7 card. Shooting a trail walk doesn't lend itself to cleaning between shots 'cause you're shooting from a bag out in the woods. So, first shot into the dirt and then shoot the tiebreaker which on most days I can hit the dot at 20 yards. Then continue the trailwalk with a dirty (fouled) barrel with great success. I know from practice that the first shot will go almost exactly 1 1/2" high at 2:00 with a clean bore. The rest of them are dead center. I can shoot a 1" group all day to POA with the bore fouled. IF I was to clean between shots I would have to adjust my sights or sight picture to compensate 1 1/2" lower left. I choose not to. Shooting a fouler is much simpler than cleaning between shots.
P.S. A whitetail will not ever know that I hit him 1 1/2" high right with the first shot.
:bull:
That statement makes absolutely no sense, Paul. How can a "poorly bedded barrel" continue to shoot tight groups after the first shot? It's the difference between clean and fouled that moves the group. Aren't you readiing what the lads are saying?
I have a very well built, accurate rifle, .54 cal, 42" Colerain barrel. There is NO problem with the bedding or anything else on this rifle. I shoot it offhand on trailwalks. Typically the first shot on trailwalks is the tie breaker which is a 3/4" dot in the middle of a 5 X 7 card. Shooting a trail walk doesn't lend itself to cleaning between shots 'cause you're shooting from a bag out in the woods. So, first shot into the dirt and then shoot the tiebreaker which on most days I can hit the dot at 20 yards. Then continue the trailwalk with a dirty (fouled) barrel with great success. I know from practice that the first shot will go almost exactly 1 1/2" high at 2:00 with a clean bore. The rest of them are dead center. I can shoot a 1" group all day to POA with the bore fouled. IF I was to clean between shots I would have to adjust my sights or sight picture to compensate 1 1/2" lower left. I choose not to. Shooting a fouler is much simpler than cleaning between shots.
P.S. A whitetail will not ever know that I hit him 1 1/2" high right with the first shot.
paulvallandigham
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To answer your question. The first shot will set the barrel back, and settle it down into the barrel and tang mortises. But, the slight movement- particularly in hooked breech guns--- lets that first shot shoot wide. I will grant that I have seen this more in modern replica "Mountain" and "Hawken" style rifles, where hooked breeches are more common, but that is why I listed this is the first category of fault that delivers a first shot out of group. Around here, we don't see shooters with custom, or semi-custom made rifles until they have been in the sport for more than 5 years on average, and therefore don't see properly bedded barrels and tangs with this problem, that often.
Did you read my SECOND most likely cause??? And that is not having the correct thickness in the fabric used for the patch??
When dealing with long rifles, and custom, or semi-custom made rifles, with fixed tangs, this becomes the PRIMARY reason for the first shot going wide.
I was giving my opinion from years of helping new shooters at my gun club dealing with their own " First shot " problems. These are the guys who, like I did, entered the sport buying the cheapest commercially made rifle they could afford. Some of those stocks were so badly bedded, that you could move the barrel up and down, or sideways, just pressing on the back end of them! After that first shot, some of them would "settle down" and shoot pretty good groups.
Back in the late 70s, and early 1980s, we saw a lot of CVAs and a few T/C rifles.( They were more expensive back then, too.) A lot of the guns were kits that the owners put together, so we certainly could not blame the manufacturers for all the problems we saw.
One guy finally came to some of us older members and showed us his new rifle, that showed a small crack forming at the back of the tang, on the wrist.
He took the gun to one of the officers, who lived near him, and together, they properly glass bedded the TANG and the barrel, and then used marking dye to find the high spots and burrs :shocked2: On the hook, and inside the rectangular opening for the hook in the tang, and removed them to mate the hook properly to the tang.
They had to do a bit of clean-up with the barrel hanger, and keyway, but in the end, that gun was a TACKDRIVER, and the owner won or placed in lots of our club matches. Oh, he had no more problem with first shots being out of group.
Whenever some member showed up with a NEW (full stock)long rifle, everyone stopped shooting to go take a long look at the gun, and do a lot of drooling. :rotf:
:haha:
Perhaps you belong to a club where everyone begins with an expensive, custom made long rifle, so that your experience differs from mine. That would be nice, from my perspective. :hatsoff:
Did you read my SECOND most likely cause??? And that is not having the correct thickness in the fabric used for the patch??
When dealing with long rifles, and custom, or semi-custom made rifles, with fixed tangs, this becomes the PRIMARY reason for the first shot going wide.
I was giving my opinion from years of helping new shooters at my gun club dealing with their own " First shot " problems. These are the guys who, like I did, entered the sport buying the cheapest commercially made rifle they could afford. Some of those stocks were so badly bedded, that you could move the barrel up and down, or sideways, just pressing on the back end of them! After that first shot, some of them would "settle down" and shoot pretty good groups.
Back in the late 70s, and early 1980s, we saw a lot of CVAs and a few T/C rifles.( They were more expensive back then, too.) A lot of the guns were kits that the owners put together, so we certainly could not blame the manufacturers for all the problems we saw.
One guy finally came to some of us older members and showed us his new rifle, that showed a small crack forming at the back of the tang, on the wrist.
He took the gun to one of the officers, who lived near him, and together, they properly glass bedded the TANG and the barrel, and then used marking dye to find the high spots and burrs :shocked2: On the hook, and inside the rectangular opening for the hook in the tang, and removed them to mate the hook properly to the tang.
They had to do a bit of clean-up with the barrel hanger, and keyway, but in the end, that gun was a TACKDRIVER, and the owner won or placed in lots of our club matches. Oh, he had no more problem with first shots being out of group.
Whenever some member showed up with a NEW (full stock)long rifle, everyone stopped shooting to go take a long look at the gun, and do a lot of drooling. :rotf:
:haha:
Perhaps you belong to a club where everyone begins with an expensive, custom made long rifle, so that your experience differs from mine. That would be nice, from my perspective. :hatsoff:
