First shot varies...what would you do?

[Sparkitoff]

I have two rifles that shoot the 1st shot on a clean barrel to a different point than subsequent shots.

I spend a few days at the range checking this out. Without a doubt, one rifle (a flintlock) shoot about 5-inches right on the clean barrel. Every subsequent shot hits the same spot, in this case the point of aim. The second rifle is percussion. I admit I have not messed with finding a best load, the first one I tried was sufficient (or so I thought). This one keeps the windage just right, but puts the first shot 4-inches low. All the following shots are around 2-inches high. These results are consistent. If I swab, no swab, two shots, ten shots - it doesn't matter, all the ball are in the same group. Except for the first shot out of the clean barrel.

I don't want to sight in for the clean barrel. It's a pain in the neck. I also prefer not to shoot a "fouling" shot before hunting.

I am hoping to find a solution within the combination of components. I am going to try one size larger ball. I'm thinking maybe my first shot is just too loose in the barrel. Also, I am going to try one thickness greater in the patch, with the same ball and the larger ball. I have .018, so I am going to .020.

Do you think this is the right approach? Might this component change achieve what I am seeking (EVERY shot in same group)? Thanks in advance for the input.

 

[FishDFly]

Yep and yes.

 

[CoHiCntry]

I’ll be interested to hear what others have to say & if you can figure out a fix for this. I’ve always just fired a fouling shot when this is an issue.

 

[Carbon 6]

Clean the barrel after each shot. Problem solved.
It's called "fouling" for reason.

 

[LawrenceA]

Thought it was normal.
Even in unmentionables.
Used to do fouling and warm up rounds in comp.

 

[Rudyard]

If its consistant why not aim accordingly clean & foul. But must agree if loading for hunting you might well get but the first shot. In general I think first shots go high .
Rudyard

 

[deermanok]

I notice the same thing with my rifles, (percussion). The first shot from a clean barrel is usually a few inches to the right for some reason. I only target shoot at 50 yards, open sights of course. I don't know if it would be more at longer ranges.
But a close shot at a deer, 50 yards or under, I don't worry much about my shots being a bit off center.

 

[dave951]

If you know your gun, aim accordingly especially if the load is accurate and that first shot is consistent.

 

[Gun Tramp]

Clean the barrel after each shot. Problem solved.

Yes.

 

[FishDFly]

Clean the barrel after each shot. Problem solved.
It's called "fouling" for reason.

"If I swab, no swab, two shots, ten shots - it doesn't matter,"

He says he is cleaning between shots and it does not help.

What then?

 

[Old Hawkeye]

The first shot is the only one I would concern myself with in a hunting scenario. It's the most important one & ML's are conducive to "quick" follow up shots anyway. I always sight my rifles in for the first shot from a clean barrel.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

Are the shots taken off hand or from a bench?

 

[Sparkitoff]

Couple of things brought up .....

I've try to swab between shots, but not a full cleaning.

This is from the same bench at the same range. I do have a wind meter. I try to duplicate conditions. The first shot variance is consistent.

In contrast, I have 5 additional rifles that don't do this. Each of them tends to shoot the first clean barrel shot to the same point as the subsequent shots. Usually I will shoot a 5-shot group, swab or clean barrel and shoot an additional 5-shot group. These other rifles put the 10 balls in the same spot.

Interesting why these two I'm working with do not shoot clean first shots to same place as others, but somewhere I think there's a remedy.....

 

[Carbon 6]

I admit I have not messed with finding a best load, the first one I tried was sufficient (or so I thought). This one keeps the windage just right, but puts the first shot 4-inches low. All the following shots are around 2-inches high. These results are consistent.

That's a 6 inch spread. Perhaps the real problem is staring you in the face.

 

[tallpine]

The first thing I would do is try a thicker patch for your first shot. I believe it was Ned Roberts who shimmed his patches with cigarette papers to determine the optimum patch thickness. I solved the exact same problem with one thickness of heavy garbage bag,between the ball and patch. It put my first shot right in the group with the non shimmed shots. This worked for me, like all things muzzleloader, your experience may be different. Another thing to consider, going to a thicker patch for all your shots, it might even improve your over all accuracy. One thing for sure, shooting a fowling shot and then hunting with a dirty gun is unacceptable to me.

 

[Carbon 6]

Is it a hooked breech ?

 

[Sparkitoff]

Neither rifle has a hooked breach.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Couple of things brought up .....

I've try to swab between shots, but not a full cleaning.

This is from the same bench at the same range. I do have a wind meter. I try to duplicate conditions. The first shot variance is consistent.

In contrast, I have 5 additional rifles that don't do this. Each of them tends to shoot the first clean barrel shot to the same point as the subsequent shots. Usually I will shoot a 5-shot group, swab or clean barrel and shoot an additional 5-shot group. These other rifles put the 10 balls in the same spot.

Interesting why these two I'm working with do not shoot clean first shots to same place as others, but somewhere I think there's a remedy.....

I have a couple of guns that do this. Tightening up the ball-patch combo greatly reduced the issue. But that also means a required good swabbing between shots. That puts you back to cleaning instead of a quick swab between shots. One the gun that is the worst about it, the offset is consistent and I know where it is going to hit, so for shot 1 - I just change the POA a bit. No real issue, it is what it is....

 

[FishDFly]

Just gotta take what is offered and go try it.

Grizz44mag and tallpine offered worked for them and the ideas are alike, and it does not cost anything to try.

 

[Bent Sight]

What kind of lubricant are you using for rust preventative after you clean the barrel after a range session? What process do you go through to remove the rust preventative before loading the first shot of the day the next time you shoot?