First Shots from Original French 1777

[GregLaRoche]

What do people think about my idea of having an experienced and good shooter, shoot it and see how they do? That way I’ll at least know if it’s me or the gun.

 

[FlinterNick]

The 1763, 1770 and 1777 original model guns were made with pretty dense heavy barrels, they were considered heavy enough to be rifled on later generations of guns, mostly the 1816 and 1822 patterns were rifled later on. There were many reasons for this design, one was to limit the wearing down of the barrel due to rammer use and shooting and they also preferred to use a stout powder charge and the French were known for having higher quality gun powder of that time period.

The French guns did favor accuracy for a smoothbore. The French paper cartridge was made so that it would fit thightly in the bore with a .65 to .66 ball and the end of the cartridge was covered in a waxy grease.

The musket itself was designed to be aimed and fired, rather than its counter part the Brown Bess. Being lighter that the Brown Bess and sighted, the Charleville was really the AK47 of its time period as most European States adopted the same exact patterns or similar patterns.

 

[springfield art]

Flinter, you need this book published by the NMLRA; it has a translated, detailed treatise on the manufacture of the orig. French muskets, incl. all parts, how made & proofed, even the ages of various workers in the factories; "children" worked back then! It's Gunmaking & Shooting by J. Ashby Morton & Eric Bye; check out on line at www.nmlra.org. ($35. but worth it!) I have no connection with selling this book. Just a fan. Best Regards.

 

[GregLaRoche]

The book sounds interesting. I checked the link you gave me, but couldn’t find where to buy the book. Do I have to join to buy the book?
Ty

 

[Grenadier1758]

You don't have to be a member to buy the book.

 

[GregLaRoche]

Can someone help me to find where on the site to find the book?
Thanks

 

[Grenadier1758]

I should have provided a link.

http://nmlra.squarespace.com/store?category=Books

 

[GregLaRoche]

I found it. Thanks. Unfortunately, I am in France and it doesn’t look like they ship internationally. If someone who has a copy could look and see if it says the original title in French, maybe I can find it here.

 

[springfield art]

I found it. Thanks. Unfortunately, I am in France and it doesn’t look like they ship internationally. If someone who has a copy could look and see if it says the original title in French, maybe I can find it here.

The original writer was a Major Cotty, I think. Let me get back to you, I'll have the book in hand. Thanks to the other guys who posted on this! You're on the ball!

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

The book is also available at the Log Cabin Shop here in the U.S. If the NMLRA refuses to ship out of the country, perhaps they will. Their link for this book is:

http://logcabinshop.com/oc30/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=84852

Remember that the translators of this are J.Ashby Morton & Eric Bye, they are the authors of this volume.

 

[springfield art]

The book is also available at the Log Cabin Shop here in the U.S. If the NMLRA refuses to ship out of the country, perhaps they will. Their link for this book is:

http://logcabinshop.com/oc30/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=84852

Remember that the translators of this are J.Ashby Morton & Eric Bye, they are the authors of this volume.

That was a good tip for everyone. I'll bet LCS will send as long as the shipping is paid.

 

[GregLaRoche]

I emailed NMLRA and they said they would see if they could ship to France and get back to me.

I just checked with log cabin shop. They want $48. to ship. I think I might have to pass on it for $83 total cost. Maybe I’ll be in the US in the future or a friend will visit me and can bring it.

Thanks to all for the help.

 

[Stantheman86]

+1 on what Rat said, smoothbore muskets seem to like the original, stout military charge of 100 gr . Some even go a little higher, the idea being the powerful charge bumps the ball up to closer to bore size and if it's moving with a bit more oomph it tends to fly straighter.

60 gr is a "bloop" load for a .69 Musket, but also bear in mind those barrels are basically high grade Iron.

Like was said I'd have a new made barrel fitted, with cool stuff like a vent liner and put the original away so you can restore it to original at any time.

 

[GregLaRoche]

“Like was said I'd have a new made barrel fitted, with cool stuff like a vent liner and put the original away so you can restore it to original at any time.”

Putting on a. New barrel is a great idea. I’d like to, but I already have a lot invested and will probably have to wait a while before I can.

A lot of people are shooting with these lighter loads, even with replicas and do quite well. I may start increasing powder to see if it helps, but don’t think I will get up to 100 grains ever with the original barrel.

 

[RAEDWALD]

The 1763, 1770 and 1777 original model guns were made with pretty dense heavy barrels, they were considered heavy enough to be rifled on later generations of guns, mostly the 1816 and 1822 patterns were rifled later on.

When they first tried rifling to use the Devigne system there were problems with the thinning at the muzzle. Delvigne solved that by progressively reducing the depth of the groove from the breech to the muzzle which not only solved the problem but also improved the accuracy. The same barrels were still being used in the 1870 War, albeit converted to breechloading.

 

[spudnut]

Which model charley aims better? Is it the later one with the cutout on the stock for your cheek?

 

[GregLaRoche]

I went to my club last night and asked a friend to shoot my gun. He shot a nine first shot and said there was no problem with the gun. I continued shooting and did a lot better than the last time. I still need to practice and I want to reduce the weight of the trigger pull. I think I did so poorly the last (first) time, was because I was shooting from a sand bag. This time I was shooting from a standing position, like I am used to with rifles.

 

[FlinterNick]

When they first tried rifling to use the Devigne system there were problems with the thinning at the muzzle. Delvigne solved that by progressively reducing the depth of the groove from the breech to the muzzle which not only solved the problem but also improved the accuracy. The same barrels were still being used in the 1870 War, albeit converted to breechloading.

The Americans used the same methodology with the 1816 and 1835 Springfield Muskets, most .69 bored barrels are designed heavier than a .75, reason why the British Brown Bess's couldn't be rifled.

 

[Stantheman86]

Pure Lanolin makes an excellent lube on the ball end of the paper cartridges, it doesn't migrate or dry out.

 

[springfield art]

Which model charley aims better? Is it the later one with the cutout on the stock for your cheek?

Depends upon the "cut of your Cheek!"