First the ammo now the guns????

[FishDFly]

"Somebodies gotta win!

Explain then why my wife has not!

 

[TNGhost]

As I've pointed out more than a few times, Uberti did not machine any of the Colt 2nd generation or 3rd generation pistol parts.

Uberti supplied the raw castings for the gun's but that is all they did.

The raw castings for the 2nd generation pistols were totally machined in the United States by the company that became known as the Colt Blackpowder Arms Company and assembled and finished by Colt in Hartford, Ct.
The raw castings for the 3rd generation Signature pistols were totally machined in the United States and assembled and finished by Colt Blackpowder Arms Company. This company used Colt inspectors to inspect all of the parts, the assembly and finishing of the guns.

Which is why I put "made" in quotes.

Fact remains, the Colt factory did not have the resources. equipment or facilitates to manufacture their 2nd generation BP revolvers on their own, and were provided with what could be called an 80% kit, by Uberti.

And then there were those subcontractors....so basically a Colt pistol mostly in name only. and arguably no better than a Uberti that has been worked over by a competent gunsmith to enhance finish and function.

 

[Zonie]

Where did you get the information that says, "and were provided with what could be called an 80% kit, by Uberti"?

The "Third Edition Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values" by John Allen says the following on page 93 and 94.

"... Throughout the production years 1971-1982, these rough castings were produced were produced in Italy and the reproductions were completed in the United States. Initially, Val Forgett and Navy Arms provided these parts/components during 1971-73. Lou Imperato supplied these pars from 1974-76. In both instances, these revolvers were assembled and finished in Colt's facilities in Connecticut. Finally, from 1987-1982, Colt subcontracted both parts procurement and final production to Lou Imperato and Iver Johnson Arms in Middlesex, NJ. Colt percussion revolvers produced by Iver Johnson had frames, centerpins, nipples and screws manufactured in the United States. In all instances, these revolvers were manufactured in accordance with Colt's strict specifications and quality control. Additionally, Colt's performed final inspection for all models All percussion models manufactured from 1971 through 1982, either by Colt or its subcontractor, are regarded as authentic Colt pistols and not Italian replicas...."

Don't give me any excuse by pointing out the winkie eye emoji. If you make a statement like that, I want to know where your information came from.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

I see a lot of people are still enamored by the Colt "mystic" & the myth that they are somehow superior because of the stampings on the steel. Anybody with any expertise in firearms can tell by personal examination & inspection that the Colt 2nd & 3rd generation cap & ball revolvers aren't any "better" than the Uberti guns. In fact, I sold my Colt Navy to an unsuspecting fool after I bought my Uberti about 6 years ago because the Uberti was the better revolver from a fit & finish standpoint, as well as mechanical function. I'm sure one can find Ubertis not as good as the one I have & Colt's that are better than the one I had, but the bottom line is Colt's "superiority" is fraudulent. Colt has filed for bankruptcy more than once & was just recently bought by CZ. Hopefully, with CZ calling the shots, Colt products will show signs of improvement over the dismal stuff recently offered. Colt is a company that has lived off it's name for far too long. Thank God someone bought it. Whether CZ puts an end to the facade or tries to market the "name" only is yet to be seen.

 

[sourdough]

Zonie, excellent post! Right on the mark.

Regards,

Jim

 

[zneufeld]

I agree that the demand for modern firearms is spilling over into muzzleloaders. I'm part of that! I've had a pistol for home defense for years, but when things really started to go bad last year, I was one of the Johnny-come-latelys who thought "Dang, I need a rifle." With the crazy demand (and the realization that it would take several months to get the modern rifle I wanted here in CA), I scratched the blackpowder itch that had been building for awhile and bought a GPR. It has been a lot of fun, and I eventually did find the modern rifle I wanted (picking up this week!).

So, while it might be annoying that supply is so low right now, the situation got a newcomer like me into the hobby.

 

[smoothshooter]

Which is why I put "made" in quotes.

Fact remains, the Colt factory did not have the resources. equipment or facilitates to manufacture their 2nd generation BP revolvers on their own, and were provided with what could be called an 80% kit, by Uberti.

And then there were those subcontractors....so basically a Colt pistol mostly in name only. and arguably no better than a Uberti that has been worked over by a competent gunsmith to enhance finish and function.

Wasn’t the guy that owns the modern Henry company involved in the process somehow?

 

[Whitworth]

I see a lot of people are still enamored by the Colt "mystic" & the myth that they are somehow superior because of the stampings on the steel. Anybody with any expertise in firearms can tell by personal examination & inspection that the Colt 2nd & 3rd generation cap & ball revolvers aren't any "better" than the Uberti guns. In fact, I sold my Colt Navy to an unsuspecting fool after I bought my Uberti about 6 years ago because the Uberti was the better revolver from a fit & finish standpoint, as well as mechanical function. I'm sure one can find Ubertis not as good as the one I have & Colt's that are better than the one I had, but the bottom line is Colt's "superiority" is fraudulent. Colt has filed for bankruptcy more than once & was just recently bought by CZ. Hopefully, with CZ calling the shots, Colt products will show signs of improvement over the dismal stuff recently offered. Colt is a company that has lived off it's name for far too long. Thank God someone bought it. Whether CZ puts an end to the facade or tries to market the "name" only is yet to be seen.

Funny I went the other way, selling an Uberti I wasn't enamored with and purchased a 2nd gen Colt Navy. There is a difference, the final polish given prior to bluing on the Colt is superior to any Uberti I've owned and that covers production years from 1961 to 2016. I do have an Uberti Colt London Model 1861 made in 1994 that comes close to the polish on the Colt, probably by accident . The Colt logo along with "Address Saml Colt, New York City" on the barrel and lack of defacing Italian markings was worth a few extra bucks to me in this case. YMMV

 

[Whitworth]

Wasn’t the guy that owns the modern Henry company involved in the process somehow?

Yup.

 

[TNGhost]

Where did you get the information that says, "and were provided with what could be called an 80% kit, by Uberti"?

The "Third Edition Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values" by John Allen says the following on page 93 and 94.



Don't give me any excuse by pointing out the winkie eye emoji. If you make a statement like that, I want to know where your information came from.

My information came from the same place yours did. All a matter of interpretation. To my eye, the Colt "2nd generation" guns were more akin to the Italian reproductions, than they were (as insinuated by their name and advertising hype) to Colt's original revolvers.

They were reproductions, not a continuation of manufacture which Colt would have liked you to believe,, and even the basic design specs on them are more like the Italian guns than the original Colts, as to dimensions, steels used, etc. Yes they were given a closer eye as to level of fit and finish but in the end they were just a higher level repro based on the same parts as the Italian guns.

Beyond the origins, they only thing "Colt" about those revolvers, was the name stamped on them. They could have just as well been stamped Navy Arms or Iver Johnson as per the article you quoted, but then that wouldn't have done much for sales, or garnered the premium they sold for, would it?

 

[William Lincoln]

Some years back I was able to buy three Colts, one a Second-generation and two signature
series all 1860s. Everyone has told me the Signature series were inferior. I can't tell though.
They are all awesome. Beautifully crafted. However, they were not cheap. The 2nd gen was
over $800 back then. What I always wanted, but could never find affordable, was an 1860
in Stainless steel. When I was shopping for Colts the stainless clones were over $1000.
I don't recall if Colt authorized any revolvers in Stainless. I have sold a lot of guns over
the years but not Colts. It is a mesmerizing brand that really cannot be replaced by
anything else. Just owning (I shoot Piettas) a Colt is satisfying in itself without shooting it.
For the people who want to acquire these revolvers you are in the right place on this forum,
but be patient and keep watching. Be ready to jump when one gets offered. Except for a
few items, I got mine years ago and thank you Lord for stirring me up to buy when I did.
You folks just starting in this, don't go too crazy for price gougers, but do jump when you
see one come up BUT get a few days inspection period worked into the deal.

 

[Bad Karma]

Colt's resurrected percussion revolvers were "made" by Uberti

No, they weren’t.

 

[TNGhost]

No, they weren’t.

Partially they were, and partially by Navy Arms and partially by Iver Johnson. The main thing Colt contributed was the name stamped on the barrel. Not an insignificant contribution as it is what insured sales, price and profitability in the adventure.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Funny I went the other way, selling an Uberti I wasn't enamored with and purchased a 2nd gen Colt Navy. There is a difference, the final polish given prior to bluing on the Colt is superior to any Uberti I've owned and that covers production years from 1961 to 2016. I do have an Uberti Colt London Model 1861 made in 1994 that comes close to the polish on the Colt, probably by accident . The Colt logo along with "Address Saml Colt, New York City" on the barrel and lack of defacing Italian markings was worth a few extra bucks to me in this case. YMMV

Things regarding fit, finish & bluing seem to cover a wide range of "quality" with both revolvers. My Uberti Navy is the London model that is beautifully fit & finished. The mechanics are perfect. The arbor is precisely fit, the cylinder timing is the best I have ever had on ANY revolver I have ever owned. It is very accurate & reliable. I'm sure I just got lucky, as I've shot & handled Ubertis that were lacking in these aspects & I've owned & fired Colt's that were nicely built, as well. Last Colt I sold was a 2nd Gen 1860 Army & it was an OK revolver, but nothing to write home about. Point is, the stamp on the gun is not an assurance of a well built revolver & the Colt name has allowed them to be forgiven for QC issues that Uberti gets vilified for. THGhost is correct on the manufacturing history of both the 2nd & 3rd Generation Colts. The 2nd Gen is the better fit gun, but not perfect. The 3rd Gen was pretty much just stamped by Colt with some squiggle on the back strap. The market power of the Colt name still holds glamor for many, as is reflected in the insane overpricing they command. Just my two cents!

 

[Cpt Flint]

There must be two kinds of percussion revolver shooters. Those that have Colt’s and them that just want. The Italians made revolvers so that poor people can have guns.

 

[FishDFly]

"There must be two kinds of percussion revolver shooters. Those that have Colt’s and them that just want. The Italians made revolvers so that poor people can have guns."

Not necessarily.

 

[RB POWELL]

There must be two kinds of percussion revolver shooters. Those that have Colt’s and them that just want. The Italians made revolvers so that poor people can have guns.

Bull!

 

[Hawken]

I'd love to have a genuine Colt or Remington.

To be honest, I never appreciated just how good the Uberti and Pietta firearms actually are. I just "assumed" that for $200 or so, they must only have a passing acquaintance with Quality or accuracy with respect to period originals. They do have their flaws no denying it, but even casting a critical eye at them they are a very good value and a lot of gun for the money. There's no way I would have paid $400 or $500, then or now.

I'm glad I bought when I did, because it looks like the days of ~$200 cap and ball revolvers, delivered, are long gone. I watched availability dry up around July of last year. Did it recover, and then backslide or something? I knew then, things were pretty wacky.

At the time I posited that the unprecedented demand to the so-called "civil unrest" sweeping the urban areas, normal peaceable citizens legislatively or lawfully unable to acquire those unmentionable cartridge type firearms in any realistic time frame could at least be able to defend themselves and their family. "Kickin' it Old School", indeed.

 

[Bad Karma]

If a person or group of investors decided to open a state side percussion hand gun operation what in your opinion would be the best selling, least risky , initial model and what would be the pricing single shot or revolver ?

The initial offering would be a tuned .36 Colt 1851. Side by side with a Remington Navy both closely based on actual originail dimensions. Chambers correctly .002” over groove diameter, finest action tune and fit and finish equal to original. List price around 750.00 with options for barrel lengths and grip materials and configuration.

 

[sourdough]

I'm glad I bought when I did, because it looks like the days of ~$200 cap and ball revolvers, delivered, are long gone. I watched availability dry up around July of last year. Did it recover, and then backslide or something? I knew then, things were pretty wacky.

Three months ago the rumor was that Uberti and Pietta would go back into production in April. The latest rumor is that Uberti and Pietta will not resume production until late Fall due to the pandemic lockdowns in N. Italy.

Stay tuned...

Jim