First time shooting

[JKVirginia]

Well, took Susie down to the range today, and the results were, some good, some bad.

First thing I noticed is apparently this rifle has a TIGHT bore. I about blew out my wrists trying to load .440 balls with a pillow-tick patch. Further, if I didn't swab after every shot, I'd have balls sticking halfway down and nearly herniate myself ramming them down the rest of the way. My shooting session came to an early end when I ended up with a spit-patch stuck on the jag in the bore. Fortunately my local gun shop was kind enough to pop it in the vise and pull the rod out free of charge. :redface:

On the good news front, when I could get a ball loaded, the results looked promising-- Using .440 hornady balls and .015 cotton patches, either spit-lubed or with bore butter, I consistently was printing successive shots within 1" of each other from the bench, hand-held (No rest other than a carpeted 4x4" block) at 25 yards. In short, I think the rifle can shoot better than me. Now if I can just find a load I can get down the barrel without rupturing something I consider important... I'll be ready to go. Unfortunately I have nothing to report on 50 yard shooting, cuz the jag got stuck in shot #2 of my last 25 yard group :curse:

So, that's my report for now--Is it usual for a bore to shoot that tight(it had some rust in it when I got it, looks fairly clean now, but I dunno if it's clear all the way down--my bore light doesn't see much past the first 4")?Or should I be worried?

 

[Mark Walker]

Hi, I'll tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes....I'm sure you will get some diff. info. but here goes....
start with a clean bore and fire a shot with the same load. Use solvent and clean bore, dry, snap 3 caps, reload and fire over solid rest, and repeat 3-5 times. Remove target document and try new charge and start over. This is very slow but thats how I do it. I want a clean bore so I can load and hunt knowing the first shot will go where I need plus I can leave it loaded if I don't shoot.


I used to fire a fowler at my mail box stand, reload and hunt. By the end of hunting season, I had a 1.5" group at 60 yrd. It was left and right do to wind on the diff. days. I learned more from my mail box than anything else. I still carry the scars from fowling!!!


Flincher

 

[Rat]

Sounds like spit-patching isn't really working for you, and I have not always heard the greatest comments about bore-butter.

I'd try some different lubes...moose milk, wonder lube, bacon grease concoctions...etc.

Also, why not try a smaller ball, or thinner patch? A wonder-wad under the ball works great for me too, keeps the bore cleaner.

Rat

 

[Zonie]

I wonder if your pillow tick patching material is really .015 thick.
So far as I've heard, there isn't a real good way to measure cloth thickness. It's a matter of feel.
Most of the pillow ticking I've seen runs about .018 thick and that might be part of the problem.

Try buying some thinner patches at a gun store. Ox-Yoke makes some good patches which are .010 and .015 thick.

I've had very good success with Bore Butter and Natural Lube 1000. The only real problems I have heard of deal with people who use it to protect their bores after cleaning their gun.
It isn't a very good rust preventitive. Nowhere near as good as Castor Oil.

When starting the ball/patch, are you using a "short starter" with two different lengths of rod?
The ones I have have a little button for the initial starting, and a rod about 3 inches long for the second "ramming".
I've noted that if I don't use the second rod, the ball/patch is very tight all the way down the bore. If I use the 3 inch rod, the patch/ball seem to be a Lot easier to ram the rest of the way down the bore.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Flincher has a point about shot #1 being the important one, but I maintain that a shooting regimen you can't use while standing in the woods loading from your hunting pouch is impractical. I lube my bores BEFORE the first shot. I run a dry patch, flip it over and put a light coating of lube on it, then run it up and down the bore. Then I snap a cap to clear the nipple if it's a percussion and then load.

Every shot thereafter is pushing a lubed, tight patch down the barrel, so the result is the same environment ahead of the ball from the first shot to the last: a light coating of lube. I think this pre-lubing also helps keep the fouling softer. Like greasing a pan before you add the food to be cooked.

I've had good luck with Natural Lube 1000 Plus and Lehigh Valley Lube for grease and liquid lubes. Whomp up some of my version of moose milk or Moose Snot for homebrewed equivalents. I've gone 15 shots with Moose Snot without wiping before I chickened out. Others have gone 20 and even 30 shots. I carry a small leather strap to wrap around the exposed end of my ramrod for a better grip. That little bit extra can save the day.

If you continue to encounter stuck patches or balls, even if you have them well dampened or lubed, you might want to do a search here on "Lapping" for tips on smoothing up the bore.

 

[JKVirginia]

Zonie,

I actually was experimenting with T/C's prelubed patches--.018 pillow ticking and .015 cotton. The former nearly put me in a truss with a .440 round ball, and even using a t-handle short starter, it was a chore getting it down after 1-2 shots. I could get the .015 cotton patches down, but it was still a fight. Maybe I should think about .435 balls if there are such a thing?

I'm giving up on the spit-patching, going to just use alcohol and swab the bore. Takes longer and less convenient, but another stuck rod and I'll die of embarassment right on the firing line. Alternately some type of .010 patching material ought be about right, if there's no such beast as a .435 ball

 

[Stumpkiller]

Note that alcohol does nothing to lube the bore, and removes any oil that was left in there. It's just a carrier for the lube in liquid lubes and a solvent that evaporates. It will give you a nice, dry, moistureless bore. If you use alcohol to wipe, you really have to glob on the patch lube, which can harm accuracy with build-up. Olive oil would be a better choice for an off-the-shelf lube & solvent.

 

[Zonie]

I don't think Speer or Hornady make .435 diameter balls.
Dixie's 2003 catalog shows some .435 Dixie cast balls.
I can't say what they look like because I've never ordered them but I have ordered some of their other "cast" balls.
I think the kids at the local orphanage were doing the casting for the ones I bought.

Based on your comments, I guess you just have a tight barrel, so try to get some thinner patches.
Also, if you get your ramrod/patch stuck again, pour some water or light weight oil down the barrel and let it soak for a minute or so. This will often loosen up the patches grip in the bore allowing you to simply pull the patch/ramrod back out.

 

[JKVirginia]

Will give the olive oil a try next time, Stump. Thanks for the info.

Guess I'm going to have to resign myself to a tight-as-hell bore and shop for some extra-thin patch material.

 

[brushbuster]

Zonie,

I actually was experimenting with T/C's prelubed patches--.018 pillow ticking and .015 cotton. The former nearly put me in a truss with a .440 round ball, and even using a t-handle short starter, it was a chore getting it down after 1-2 shots. I could get the .015 cotton patches down, but it was still a fight. Maybe I should think about .435 balls if there are such a thing?

I'm giving up on the spit-patching, going to just use alcohol and swab the bore. Takes longer and less convenient, but another stuck rod and I'll die of embarassment right on the firing line. Alternately some type of .010 patching material ought be about right, if there's no such beast as a .435 ball

speer and hornady both make a .433 round ball.after watching a couple fo guys literally hammering the ball down there new barrels at a shoot i went to this weekend i really appreciated how easy my ball started with sumpys moose snot ,i shot a ten shot string before i got scared and ran a cleaning patch down the barrell :m2c: :results: :thumbsup:

 

Lee makes a .433" double cavity ball mould. I bought one recently from Track.
JK VIRGINIA - : It could be this barrel is a .44, ie; .440"- as some of the guns sold by Navy Arms and CVA were tight, back in the 70's and 80's but then I checked and found measurments listed by Lyman book for them, as being .447", which is only .003" tighter than standard. It is possible, your barrel feels too tight due to a sharp crown, and the slightly pitted bore fouling badly. A new barrel might be available from TRACK as a drop-in or as a blank, depending on your rifle. Check out TRACK for barrels. They will do different gunsmithing jobs for you if necessary - just ask.
: ALSO - it a rare new BP shooter who finds a 'proper' ball and patch combo to be anything BUT too tight!- Must keep that in mind as well. If the bore really is standard at .450" or .447 for that matter(with a .460"+ groove) a .433 ball will NEVER shoot accurately.(unless Ship-o-the-line canvas is used for the patch) On the other hand, even a tight bore will shoot a .440 ball - DC mould from Lee less than $20.00 & sold by Track for $16.95, I believe.
: ALSO - I've found that few NEW people to BP use enough spit - if it sprays when you hit the ball with the starter to seat it even with the muzzle, it's wet enough. My starter has a flat spot on the top. I press the ball into the patch (pre-cut or not), then smack it with the stater top, using the shaft as a handle. This pushes it level with the muzzle, for trimming off the patch or for continuing loading. In time, you will learn to use enough spit. It is part of the learning cycle - some take longer than others, but spit IS a very accurate lube/power softener for all rifles for target shooting. I've shot well over 200 different rifles and many different makes at the range, helping out and sighting in new custom rifles with my bro. EVERY single rifle has grouped into less than 1" at 25yds., and less than 2" at 50yds., even the 48" twist factory gun barrels with their .004" deep rifling, like the TC, Spanish and Italian "Hawken" rifles. ALL of these rifles were shot with balls .005" smaller than bore size, ie:.395 in .40, .445 in .44's & .45, .495 in .50 and .535 in .54.(except for .36 cal - these used a .350 ball same patch) All of them were shot with .018" to .020" denim patches lubed with plain old spit. Many of the rifles shot into 1" or less at 50yds.- off the bags, of course. That's generally 1 hole groups, from an inch up to 1 1/2" in dia. encompassing all balls.
: We've found that all guns respond to "consistancy in loading" and that the consistancy in loading is worth at least 50% of the accuracy attained. Only 50% is the actual load. We use the above mentioned laod, as we've found it to work in all guns we've tried it in. Some guns ask for more or less powder, but they all shoot "The Load"
: Any time something in the loading isn't EXACTLY the same, the shot is OFF. Every shot has to be loaded exactly the same. You have to think consistancy - make it all the same.
: Over the years, I've found that the first shot is rarely more than 2 1/2" from the second and subsequent shots at 50yds, and because of that, a fouling shot generally isn't necessary when hunting large game. My .69 put all shots into the same group, whether paper ctg., patched round ball, 1st, last shot - very nice feature to have. I think perhaps large bore rifles are more prone to do just that.
: On our TRAIL WALK, at the range, we have a large rabbit target, about the size of a snowshoe rabbit(1 1/2lbs.), at 40yds. This is the GIMMEE target, for the first shot of the trail, the fouling shot - it is rarely missed and most of the regulars shoot him in the mellon.