FIT OF PERCUSSION CAPS

[gbush]

Has anyone had a problem with the No. 11 percussion caps fitting on Colt 1860 Pietta nipples? To get No.11 percussion caps to fit, I had to file them down the nipples. Is this common?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Were the nipples on your Colt 1860 Pietta the factory or replacement nipples? The factory and most replacement nipples should be #10. Some replacements are #11.

Was there any evidence of dry firing? Dry firing will mushroom the nipples and some filing down will be required.

 

[gbush]

Sir, I bought my Pietta second hand, I think they were the factory nipples. No. 11 primer caps fit on some of these original nipples. Yes, I think that they may have been dry fired and this was part of the problem. Then, I bought from Track-of-the-Wolf the PIR-I Nipples. Their description specified for Pietta Colt and for Nr. 11 CCI Primers. When I got these replacements, No. 11 Winchester Magnum primers did not fit either. Just like some of the nipples that were on the Pietta when I bought it. The problem was that the Primer Caps would not seat until stuck one time by the hammer, the second time they would fire. So, I filed down these Track-of-the-Wolf nipples. Four I filed just right and they seat correctly and fire the first time. One I filed too much and the primer slips off. And one I did not file enough and has to be hit twice by the hammer. If No. 11 is too tight, would Nr. 10 be bigger or would Nr. 10 be smaller still? Thank you.

 

[Grenadier1758]

#10 caps are slightly smaller.

 

[gbush]

Thank you "Grenadier 1758." I understand "Height" but not "Cap-Face-above-Cone." I don't think "Cap-Face-above-Cone" is diameter. For example I measured my Winchester No. 11 Caps: I get Height of .166", that matches the chart general measurements. I measured the diameter of the caps and get .178" (outside diameter). If as you say, "#10 caps are slightly smaller" and I assume you mean height and diameter; than for sure they would not fit the nipples I have had experience with. Nevertheless, thank you very much for the help. I get the impression that this is a problem. Track-of-the-Wolf got defensive when I called them to inquire about the fit problem. So, this fascinates me and will take some more research.

 

[Grenadier1758]

In the chart, I. D. is Inside Diameter.

The cone is your nipple. Cap Face above cone is the distance the surface of the priming material should sit above the end of the nipple when the cap is fully seated.

The Remington #10 and #11 have the same inside diameter. The difference is the length of the skirts or height.

Most companies get defensive when you tell them their product doesn't meet specifications or intended use.

 

[nkbj]

The only times I've had #11's not fit have been when the hammer had substantial strikes on the face of the nipples and it flared the ends. Well, I'm gonna say but... When I had a percussion revolver that had previously been used as a stage prop, it had seen a whole bunch of dry firing and had the nipples faces bradded. So I replaced the nipples. It was a very nice Euroarms .36 Remington and sadly was lost to a thief who stole it from the smith I had doing work with it (to convert it to .40 bore). What can you say about someone who steals and isn't even a crack head? So, any way, some revolvers do smash the ends of their nipples. There's ways to fix that. For me it never has been much of a problem. I use #11's for everything, never having a reason to buy #10's.

 

[gbush]

Thank you for the clarification. This helps. Now I understand, and I measured the I.D.; The I.D. of the Winchester No. 11 caps I have is .165". Also, thanks for explaining Cap-Face-Above-Cone.

In the meantime, something as occurred to me. What I have been talking about is that the caps I have tried, do not have the correct I.D., the height is OK, but they are too tight to go down all the way. Once I filed down the sides of the nipples/cones, the caps seats down properly. The height is OK.

What I had hoped for in my discussion with Track of the Wolf, would have been an answer like this: "yes, we are aware that sometimes primers don't fit, we offer four different kinds for your pistol, they are PIR-I, PIR-LI, PIR-LS and PIR-S. If PIR-I does not fit let me recommend another (fill in the blank)." or "try the larger primer with and I.D. of .166 instead of what your are using."

This is the kind of exchange you and I are having. So Thank you very much indeed. George

 

[gbush]

Grenadier 1758 and nkbj, thank you for your help and patience. Your input helps me a lot. George

 

[Kansas Jake]

I've had CCIs not fit but the same size Remington fit fine. I think it was #10s of both. The CCI would require two strikes of the hammer even when I tried to seat them well. The Remington's works fine. I use both types. This was on a Pietta 1858 revolver even after I bought new nipples.

 

[No second place]

Has anyone had a problem with the No. 11 percussion caps fitting on Colt 1860 Pietta nipples? To get No.11 percussion caps to fit, I had to file them down the nipples. Is this common?

Is this common?...Yes, but I`m very picky about my tuning. No problem peening nipples to a larger size cap or filing to a smaller size. Have had to do one or the other on all my cappers nipples. Best to stick with the same brand and size afterward...c

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Sigh... this isn’t rocket science, guys.

Buy a couple tins of different caps and see what fits and works best with your nipple. #10 or #11 effectively means nothing as their is no industry standard for percussion cap sizes. You just have to experiment a little.

 

[lenl349]

just bought cci #11 percussion caps for my Investarms .50 cal. Hawken type. havent' shot them yet but they seem a bit loose on the nipple. should i crimp the bottom a bit to get a tighter fit?
Not sure but I think #10s would be too small.
Also, should I fire off a couple of caps before loading just to clean things out?

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

The truth is there is just no sure-fire rhyme or reason for cap size designations.

Generally, #11s are a bit bigger but really that doesn’t mean much. Whichever nipples you chose, be they factory or aftermarket, you need to try a variety of caps to see what works best. These things are all about experimentation and there are rarely any hard fast rules with these guns, they can vary so much even off the same line. Tolerances of guns, nipples, and caps are all fluid and nothing is set in stone. The fancy charts that may or may not be accurate and up to date are decent reference points, but again you’re just going to have to get out there and find what works.

 

[wb78963]

there is no set standard on percussion caps, every manufacture has their own idea osf sizes. Therefore either fumble around to get a cap/cone pairing that works, or use slixshot nipples and REMINGTON #10 caps and shoot happily ever after.
Which is what I am out the door to do now.
Bunk

 

[mooman76]

You could try 1075s if you can find them. They come in a red plastic can, if I remember right, Italian made. They also seem to have a little more power. They are kind of between a 10 and a 11 in size. I think just a different taper but not for sure. Good caps.

 

[Billy Boy]

Most of the cap issues i have had were more brand related than size related. Very rarely have a prob with Rems. Keep in mind too that tolerances can stack or change from lot to lot. Keep popping them!

 

[Zonie]

You could try 1075s if you can find them. They come in a red plastic can, if I remember right, Italian made. They also seem to have a little more power. They are kind of between a 10 and a 11 in size. I think just a different taper but not for sure. Good caps.

Those 1075 caps are made by Dynamit Nobel in Troisdorf, Germany. Good caps, if you can find them but they do cost a bit more than the caps made in America.

 

[wb78963]

You could try 1075s if you can find them. They come in a red plastic can, if I remember right, Italian made. They also seem to have a little more power. They are kind of between a 10 and a 11 in size. I think just a different taper but not for sure. Good caps.

For what it is worth the 1075 cap is made by RWS (Rheinish-Westfalische Sprengstoff ) a division of Dynamit Nobel the German explosives company. Great cap but does NOT work on slixshot cones which, unfortunately,all my guns are equipped. On original Pietta or Uberti cones I have no idea.
Bunk

 

[Mark Herman]

9 out of 10 times revolver nipples take #10 caps and "almost" all rifles take #11. Musket caps are a different breed of cat altogether. Tolerance in size of caps is so minute it makes no difference, the different tolerances become evident when you measure nipples.