Fixing blocked ramrod hole?

[craigl]

I've gone and made a real newbie boo-boo on my first build. Installed the front lock bolt about 1/16th inch too low, blocking the ramrod from properly seating into its storage position. This is on a .50 cal B-weight Dunlap stock using Haines style 2-bolt lock plate and Siler lock. Right now, the threaded hole for the front bolt is almost exactly in the inside crook of the frizzen spring. After slamming my head against the wall (didn't help), I tried to list my options, as follows:

1. Plug and/or hog out the top of the bolt channel from the lock plate side, also raising the hole through the lock plate and hope the bolt head covers the unused bottom part of the hole and also that the bolt will still thread into the lock;

2. Drill and tap a new hole above the current hole in the lock plate, hogging out a new raised bolt channel through the stock from the lock side, assuming I have enough room between the old hole and the edge of the lock;

3. Buy a new lock (or just the plate if available) and drill and tap both bolt holes, doing it right this time;

4. Reduce the diameter of the last two inches of my ramrod from 3/8 to 1/4, and try and make it appear like its decorative.

I also considered reducing the diameter of the middle of the bolt, but that's probably a non-starter. I'm tempted just to buy a new lock.

Any words of wisdom or suggestions? The gun was really going nicely up to now...

 

[mah7039]

Consider doing away with the front lock bolt. You can put a false bolt on the side plate (plug the hole and turn the bolt into a screw) I've seen it done plenty of times.

 

[Supercracker]

you don't need to trash the plate. I did the same thing and welded up the offending hole, dressed off the bead then redrilled it.

 

[jdkerstetter]

This problem is fairly common. Especially when trying to get architecture right or the sideplate in the proper location. Not a big deal.

How thick is your bolt shaft? If it is only blocks the ramrod hole by 1/16" of it's diameter as you indicated and the shaft of the bolt is at least 1/8", and it is probably thicker, you are OK.

Put your bolt in all the way and snug it up as you would when installing the lock normally. Put an index mark at the on the top face of the bolt head. After you remove the bolt you can take a punch or engraving tool to make the mark permanent.

Determine whether it is the top or the bottom of the bolt shaft that is stopping the ramrod? Determine that and then take a half round file and put a groove in the bolt shaft so that the ramrod will pass when the bolt is inserted and indexed on your mark. As long as you have half the bolt remaining you are OK.

Now, you will have to remove your ramrod before you remove the lock bolt but this is of no consequence.

Just did one like this the other night. Sometimes you just want the bolt where you want the bolt and it interferes with the rod. This is just one work around.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

Very common. First you should be tapering your ram rod. Second about 30% to 50% of originals have the front lock nail with a filed groove to help with the rod clearance. The fix is simple, first mark the fully installed position of the lock nail/bolt then simply file a groove where the ram rod will slide by. Could be as much as half of the bolt. Easy fix, historically accurate, and you don't have to weld anything or use a screw, that won't hold for very long if you are going to pull the lock every time you have shot it. Easy-peasy

Bill

 

[jerrywh]

Most American longrifles had tappered ram rods. It is not a bad idea to turn down the middle of the front lock screw. It is a common fix. Also the front of the lock can be hooked as the English did on many of their guns.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I would listen to these last three guys, I have done the same thing and used the very same fix.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Make an adjustment to your lock bolt.

 

[Vaino]

To eliminate this problem, a #6-32 front lock bolt is used and the lockbolt location requires a shallow groove in the bbl. The "web" at the breech is usually 3/32"-1/8" and requires both of the above.As to the fix... I'd weld up the hole in the lockplate and start over. My RRs are tapered but for ease of entry ....not because of restrictions of the RR hole. ....Fred

 

[craigl]

Thanks for the fast replies guys! Great suggestions, and it figures that the quickest and easiest one was the one I had initially rejected. Duh.

Time to chuck that puppy in the drill press and break out the round file. If that doesn't do it completely, will add a slight taper to the ramrod.

If *that* doesn't work, I'll try drilling and tapping a new hole in the lock, but instead of trying to weld the old hole shut, I'll simply thread in the old lock bolt, cut it off flush on both sides and then use a punch to jam it in place. Would expect that would fill the old hole nicely while letting me drill and tap a new one and prevent the bit from wandering. My non-existent welding skills would turn the lock into slag.

Will let you know what my final fix is...

 

[jdkerstetter]

Make an adjustment to your lock bolt.

As is being pointed out a lot of how you choose to do the work-around depends on where the interference is, where you want the bolt, etc, etc.

Eric shows one example here that might work. Sometimes you have to take it off one side or the other to take it down to half diameter and index the bolt.

I should have mentioned tapering your ramrod also. Thanks Bill, Jerry....

Many way to skin this cat. Part of building is learning these work-arounds.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Some good advice given. Centering everything in huge webs gives you a huge gun so some tricks need to be done so as the gun has a good slim appearance. Many times you will find even London's best original guns with a groove filed into the bottom of the barrel to allow close passage of the front lock bolt.
Best and simplest procedure at this juncture is to follow the two-fold advice of Jerry and others by tapering your ramrod down from 3/8 to 5/16 and thinning the waist of the lock nail. I prefer that to slotting only one side of the bolt if you can get away with it. you are dealing with 1/16 so this is the preferable combo IMHO.
Many also think that the threaded tip has to be at the muzzle when in the pipes but I like it in the gun. You can put a 5/16 threaded tip on and taper your rod down. This leaves the big end for pushing the ball down on the muzzle end when in the pipes.

 

[jdkerstetter]

...and thinning the waist of the lock nail. I prefer that to slotting only one side of the bolt if you can get away with it.

Thinning the bolt or wasp-waisting is also my perferred work-around if your placement allows. Unfortunately the one I just did required half the thinkness to be removed, even after tapering the rod so I had to reply on the notching. I had to get that lock bolt centered properly on the side panel.

I managed to index the lock nails so that the slots were horizontal and marked the front bolt head with a tiny engraved arrow head pointing upward.

This problem has happened so much historically that there are many work-arounds.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[craigl]

Thinned the center of the lock bolt and tapered the ramrod and it slid right in.

Now back to inletting and pinning the ramrod guides which is how this all started...

Thanks again to all.

 

[jdkerstetter]

OH NO!!! You didn't tell us you hadn't inlet the ramrod pipes that changes everything!!! :shocked2: :shocked2:



Just kidding!

That's great news! :applause: :applause:

See, all worked up over nothing. I don't know that there is anything you could run into on a build that somebody on this board hasn't adressed....after much crying and hair pulling of course. :cursing:

Enjoy the rest of the build, J.D.

 

[Bruce Bogart]

It's funny, I've got a rifle with a fake front screw, and a rifle with a reduced diameter shank. I just about covered that mistake

 

[jdkerstetter]

It's funny, I've got a rifle with a fake front screw, and a rifle with a reduced diameter shank. I just about covered that mistake

Not mistakes Bogie. Sometimes the architecture dictates what must be done and finding creative solutions is part of the challenge. It would be too easy to make really fat bellied, ugly guns.

A word on fake front lock bolts. Some locks are better balanced than other and don't require front bolts, usually these are later locks like the Late Ketand.

Some locks torque more during firing and benefit from some sort of forward retention. The forward bolt is there for this reason. The Brits would put a hook on the front inside of the plate that would engage a pin or wood screw head hidden in the lock mortise. As I understand it, the most common "fix" used by American smiths when they encountered the ramrod interference problem was as we described here.

For this reason, I believe that fake front bolts would be very rare on original guns and as yet I haven't seen any or heard of any be done this way. Maybe they are out there. :idunno:

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Bruce Bogart]

Wait I've really got the ramrod hole mistakes covered :rotf: