Flash hole liner maintenance

[Griz44Mag]

My liners are a 1 time installation removal will take an easy-out . There is no reason to take liners in and out unless you prefer unneeded wear.

Some are concerned that the wear resulting from frequent removal will result in a blow out of the liner. Others have had their liners in for years, remove the liners for cleaning and see no wear or corrosion.

I remove it every time I clean the rifle. With every shot the antiseize gets forced out of the threads and fouling is forced in. When you pump it in a bucket of water, the water gets in the threads. I remove it and then pump the water. Never tighten more than snug and youll never have a problem. The threads wont wear out if you dont abuse them.

So, seems to be one of those things that are pretty much an individual choice.
Like most things, there are those who SCREAM "Don't do it" (Is that because they don't and everyone needs to do thing like them?)
Then there are those who are very relaxed about it and have done it for decades with no apparent ill effects.
So to the OP - see how easy it is - or hard hard it is - for YOU to clean YOUR gun - and make up your own mind what YOU prefer.
If you DO or DON'T - it's not going to destroy your gun...... so find what you are comfy with.

 

[hanshi]

Seriously, there's NO need to remove the liner barring needed repair on the barrel.

 

[Livbucks]

I dont care if you do or dont.

 

[nhmoose]

Uh removing mine make needing to make a new one. To remove mine takes an easy-out destroying the liner. So taking it out to me means wear on the liner and touch hole.

My own .40 cal has fired over 5-6K rounds in the last 30 years and has never had the liner out.

 

[megasupermagnum]

I have not been around flintlock's long enough to give appropriate advice on how to clean them. I will say I find the idea of a permanent (without destruction) touchhole liner nonsensical. With a simple hole drilled in a barrel, you have a simple and effective method for a flash hole. That is all fine and good. But then to drill and tap for a liner, and go through pains to make sure you cant ever remove it? That is not a thought process I can understand.

So to answer your question, on my own build I am planning to install a 1/4-28 (I refuse to use odd threads) liner with screwdriver slot. I will not be filing it flush. I don't know if I will take it out often, and likely will not. I will have a screw driver in my kit to remove if needed, and will keep anti-seize on the threads to make sure it comes out when needed. I've seen people try and poke powder into the touch hole to shoot a ball out. That's a lot of screwing around for a very minor cosmetic detail.

 

[Livbucks]

Uh removing mine make needing to make a new one. To remove mine takes an easy-out destroying the liner. So taking it out to me means wear on the liner and touch hole.

My own .40 cal has fired over 5-6K rounds in the last 30 years and has never had the liner out.

Why does it take an easy-out? Is there no slot?

 

[nhmoose]

Custom turned on my own lathe. Installed long on the outside then cut off and filed flush to the barrel. no slot to look like a commercial liner.

 

[M. De Land]

Well if your gonna take out the flash hole liner each time why stop there might as well remove the breech plug as well cause over time some fouling residue might work into those threads too! It makes about as much sense to remove the liner each time as it does the breech plug which of course is ridiculous on a standard style flint or percussion rifle.

 

[Art Caputo]

Perhaps it was a fluke, but one of my first flintlocks, which I shot quite a lot, had a piece of the liner where the slot and flash hole meet blow out a section of the screw slot leaving a rather large, lollipop shaped flash hole. While I had occasionally removed/replaced that liner, I never observed any residue build-up or corrosion. Replaced the damaged liner with a flush-mounted White Lightning/no slot. It has served me well since. While I still have a couple of flintlocks with slotted/removable liners, I question the structural soundness of any slots or Allen hole provisions, and avoid any possible stress/wear of the removal/replacement process. Never had an issue keeping any type of flash-hole design clean/corrosion free with good cleaning techniques. While not always an option, my favored flash hole design is no liner, with an internally drilled cone. While unlikely in my lifetime, if it did ever wear out, a liner could be easily installed. Just my viewpoint.

 

[nkbj]

One thing for sure, threaded vent holes actually do let you open the flash way up, coned to the inside, elongated if needed to improve how the hole sits in relation to the pan.

And it's nice to know I'll be able to replace it after shooting lots of those paper patched 500 grainers. Got a bunch of those socket head stainless steel set screws.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Why does it take an easy-out? Is there no slot?

A lot of guys file them off flat so that it looks cleaner.

Well if your gonna take out the flash hole liner each time why stop there might as well remove the breech plug as well cause over time some fouling residue might work into those threads too! It makes about as much sense to remove the liner each time as it does the breech plug which of course is ridiculous on a standard style flint or percussion rifle.

That does not make any sense at all. You already remove the lock to clean. It is no big feat to use that same screwdriver to then unscrew the touch hole liner. Big whoop.

To remove a breech plug is a job. You likely need a bigger screwdriver for the tang, you need punches and a mallet to carefully knock all the barrel pins out, next carefully remove the barrel from the stock. Then you need a vice with soft jaws to grip the barrel, although it is likely to mark up the finish anyway. It then takes considerable force to remove the breech plug.

To say removing a touch hole liner is wrong because it wasn't done 150+ years ago is a false idea. The touch hole liners I've seen on original guns were tiny. They served the purpose, but no more. I doubt they were drilled/coned out as extreme as a white lightning either. I doubt they were cleaning guns with Ballistol and cotton patches, yet it is fairly common today, and nobody bats an eye.

 

[grey8833]

I put a 1/4-28 flat head slot liner in my Chambers kit. Had to work at it, but I got the liner hole just north of the breach face (barrel had to go to the rear a bit). Pulling the liner makes getting the liner cup dead clean with a q-tip and lets me get the breech plug face dead clean with the same q-tip. As noted, probably not necessary to do that, but as long as it don't hurt the rifle, each to his own.

 

[M. De Land]

A lot of guys file them off flat so that it looks cleaner.


That does not make any sense at all. You already remove the lock to clean. It is no big feat to use that same screwdriver to then unscrew the touch hole liner. Big whoop.

To remove a breech plug is a job. You likely need a bigger screwdriver for the tang, you need punches and a mallet to carefully knock all the barrel pins out, next carefully remove the barrel from the stock. Then you need a vice with soft jaws to grip the barrel, although it is likely to mark up the finish anyway. It then takes considerable force to remove the breech plug.

To say removing a touch hole liner is wrong because it wasn't done 150+ years ago is a false idea. The touch hole liners I've seen on original guns were tiny. They served the purpose, but no more. I doubt they were drilled/coned out as extreme as a white lightning either. I doubt they were cleaning guns with Ballistol and cotton patches, yet it is fairly common today, and nobody bats an eye.

The point is simply that repeated removing of the flash hole liner is no more necessary than is breech plug removal as it pertains to gun function and longevity.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Perhaps, however between removing a flash hole liner, or removing a breech plug to remove a stuck ball, which would you choose? Heck, I'd much rather unscrew the liner before trying a ball puller, especially in the field. It could be the difference between getting the job done, vs being SOL if you are a long way from a steel rod, and your wood rod doesn't quite do it. In all fairness, I've pulled two balls with wood rods. Once on a rifle, and once on a pistol. Both times worked without fault. Given the choice, I will shoot the ball out every single time. Poking blackpowder through a touch hole is tedious to put it mildly.

 

[M. De Land]

Perhaps, however between removing a flash hole liner, or removing a breech plug to remove a stuck ball, which would you choose? Heck, I'd much rather unscrew the liner before trying a ball puller, especially in the field. It could be the difference between getting the job done, vs being SOL if you are a long way from a steel rod, and your wood rod doesn't quite do it. In all fairness, I've pulled two balls with wood rods. Once on a rifle, and once on a pistol. Both times worked without fault. Given the choice, I will shoot the ball out every single time. Poking blackpowder through a touch hole is tedious to put it mildly.

In a typical dry ball situation and proper liner positioning, removing the liner is not going to get you behind the ball for powder insertion anyway unless you have a patent breech or CVA system.

 

[megasupermagnum]

That depends on the caliber slightly. At 50 caliber, as long as you are within 1/4" of the breech face, you should have room. I'll be shooting for around 3/16" from the breech face on my own build, which will leave room for the threads, plus some variance. There is plenty of room to pack in powder that way. It only takes a little bit of powder to shoot a ball out. I can't give an exact number, but I've seen guys take 1/2 an hour to try and poke in individual powder grains, It shot out, but was rather weak. Or you can take 2 minutes, take out the liner, and you can dump in enough powder with no tedious work. A patent breech holds enough powder to launch a ball to the 100 yard line, I've done it.

Whether you want to remove the liner or not on a regular basis is up to you. Whether or not a liner that can be removed easily is correct on a longrifle is up to you. Whether or not a removable liner makes a rifle easier to deal with is a no brainer.

 

[M. De Land]

That depends on the caliber slightly. At 50 caliber, as long as you are within 1/4" of the breech face, you should have room. I'll be shooting for around 3/16" from the breech face on my own build, which will leave room for the threads, plus some variance. There is plenty of room to pack in powder that way. It only takes a little bit of powder to shoot a ball out. I can't give an exact number, but I've seen guys take 1/2 an hour to try and poke in individual powder grains, It shot out, but was rather weak. Or you can take 2 minutes, take out the liner, and you can dump in enough powder with no tedious work. A patent breech holds enough powder to launch a ball to the 100 yard line, I've done it.

Whether you want to remove the liner or not on a regular basis is up to you. Whether or not a liner that can be removed easily is correct on a longrifle is up to you. Whether or not a removable liner makes a rifle easier to deal with is a no brainer.

I'm enjoying the discussion with you as it makes me think outside the box. I never have liked having any cuts in the breech plug face. I want it flush and tight with the interior breech plug seat/shoulder contact all the way around. On my current .45 cal SMR build I made my own liner of A-2 tool steel and profiled the interior of the liner to follow the curve of the barrel bore. I do not care for internal coning as it vectors powder gas outward through the vent.
I instead shortened the length of the vent by cutting an external cone moving the pan flash closer to the main charge and funneling it inward.
My liner has no slot or hex head for removal. I believe this is a benefit in that there are no irregular shapes to impede ,reflect or misdirect the pan flash to the main charge. It works very reliably in my testing an am very satisfied with the results.
The vent is positioned about 1/8 inch ahead of the flat breech face. If I dry ball that means the fouling from the previous shot and the patch of the ball are going fill the bore and cover over the vent, preventing any powder from being positioned behind it. It seems to me that pulling the ball is ones only option and I've had lots of practice as I seem to be a rather frequent dry baller!

 

[M. De Land]

I'm enjoying the discussion with you as it makes me think outside the box. I never have liked having any cuts in the breech plug face. I want it flush and tight with the interior breech plug seat/shoulder contact all the way around. On my current .45 cal SMR build I made my own liner of A-2 tool steel and profiled the interior of the liner to follow the curve of the barrel bore. I do not care for internal coning as it vectors powder gas outward through the vent.
I instead shortened the length of the vent by cutting an external cone moving the pan flash closer to the main charge and funneling it inward.
My liner has no slot or hex head for removal. I believe this is a benefit in that there are no irregular shapes to impede ,reflect or misdirect the pan flash to the main charge. It works very reliably in my testing an am very satisfied with the results.
The vent is positioned about 1/8 inch ahead of the flat breech face. If I dry ball that means the fouling from the previous shot and the patch of the ball are going fill the bore and cover over the vent, preventing any powder from being positioned behind it. It seems to me that pulling the ball is ones only option and I've had lots of practice as I seem to be a rather frequent dry baller!

The trick with a wood rod while in the field is to cross pin and epoxy the jag tip to the rod so it will not twist off while screwing the ball puller into the dry ball. A good straight grain hickory rod is almost indestructable for this job.

 

[ord sgt]

The only real maintenance is making sure the flash channel is clear before every shot. A wire pick is used to clear debris from the vent before priming the pan.
The time to remove the liner is maybe once a year during a really deep cleaning of your flintlock. Check to see if the touch hole is enlarged by hot gasses eroding the vent hole. If enlarged, it's time to replace the liner.

 

[M. De Land]

The only real maintenance is making sure the flash channel is clear before every shot. A wire pick is used to clear debris from the vent before priming the pan.
The time to remove the liner is maybe once a year during a really deep cleaning of your flintlock. Check to see if the touch hole is enlarged by hot gasses eroding the vent hole. If enlarged, it's time to replace the liner.

That is the one variable I have not been able to test yet. I speak of the erosive properties of A-2 tool steel. I think it will be pretty tough as it has a high chromium content. I did not harden it though so as to make it easier to replace which no doubt would have added to it's erosion resistance. Another technique I've been experimenting with is loading a fresh charge with a soft wire pick in the flash hole extending clear through the bore diameter.The ball is pushed down and the fresh charge compressed around the pick then the pic is removed leaving the void in the powder column it made. My thinking is this would let the flash from the pan penetrate to the center of the charge and more reliably ignite it. It also serves as a safety while reloading because it plugs the vent. It also insures the vent is clear for each shot.