Flat Horn Flask Project

[CEvonk]

I am making a flat horn powder flask from a "project horn" purchased from Powderhornsandmore.com. The site says their project horns are probably not suitable for use as traditional powder horns, and indeed the particular horn I received would make a poor traditional powder horn, as the cavity within only runs half the length of the horn. However, it is just the right size for a pocket flask of the flattened horn variety, and this is what I am going to use it for.

This will be my first powder horn project that is not a simple kit. I want to make a flattened pocket flask with pewter fittings - plug and nozzle (because I have the means and ability to make simple pewter castings.)

So, the first step is to analyze the horn presented, as the pictures demonstrate. I will have a nice solid tip left over after I cut the body of the flask from the horn, and I may use this to form charge measuring tips for the threaded nozzle of the flask. But first I have to cut the horn to size, which I will do this afternoon.

I bought two small (10" x 14" or so) nesting baking pans at the thrift store for a dollar each. Backed by some boards, they are to sandwich the oil-dipped horn between on the hydraulic press, in order to contain any oil from the horn as it is pressed.

 

[BillinOregon]

Great project, CE. I have long admired the small flat horns and can't wait to see how yours turns out -- especially with the pewter furniture. What kind of press are you using? A bottle jack adaptation?

 

[PhDBrewer]

Great description. Keep us informed of your progress!
William

 

[CEvonk]

Great project, CE. I have long admired the small flat horns and can't wait to see how yours turns out -- especially with the pewter furniture. What kind of press are you using? A bottle jack adaptation?

I have a Harbor Freight 12 ton press that uses a bottle jack for pressure. It's a convenient size for a home workshop.

 

[BillinOregon]

CE, I have had some fun with Harbor Freight bottle jacks. That 12-ton press ought to make flattening your horn child's play. Soaking your horn in hot canola?

 

[CEvonk]

CE, I have had some fun with Harbor Freight bottle jacks. That 12-ton press ought to make flattening your horn child's play. Soaking your horn in hot canola?

That's a clever design! I like especially the adaptive cookware technology.

 

[Beaverman2]

CE, I have made a couple dozen flat horns in my time, just a tip, the horn does not need to be flattened in one press, may take a couple 3 pressings so it doesn't crack, ( been there done that), let the horn cool completely in the press, horn has some memory to it. good luck, Beav

 

[CEvonk]

I have made a little montage of limited number of examples of powder horns/powder flasks with metal fittings. I anticipate hearing a lot of Fuddlore about using metal in powder horns, but the historical record is replete with powder horns plugged with metal, tipped with metal, mounted with metal, pinned with metal, or even constructed entirely with metal, yet the documentation of "horn grenade" incidents is exceedingly sparse over the six centuries of horn use in the western world. It's like the Fuddlore about Indian pipe bombs.

 

[CEvonk]

CE, I have made a couple dozen flat horns in my time, just a tip, the horn does not need to be flattened in one press, may take a couple 3 pressings so it doesn't crack, ( been there done that), let the horn cool completely in the press, horn has some memory to it. good luck, Beav

Thank you for the info. That's what I was thinking about, especially as this horn has fairly thick walls throughout. I am going to try to use an oval plug/wedge in the base to create the profile and to support the walls at the desired thickness.

 

[Beaverman2]

Thank you for the info. That's what I was thinking about, especially as this horn has fairly thick walls throughout. I am going to try to use an oval plug/wedge in the base to create the profile and to support the walls at the desired thickness.

you can file or scrape the horn thinner using a furniture scraper or a stanley knife blade , makes it easier to press.

 

[CEvonk]

you can file or scrape the horn thinner using a furniture scraper or a stanley knife blade , makes it easier to press.

Thank you, yes, I have in mind reaching up in there with a 1/4" wood chisel, or jury rigging a flap sander of sorts with some 80 grit sandpaper affixed to a dowel chucked up in my drill, something I can work around kind of like a burr-head rasp. I don't really want to thin it much, as I like the solidity of the thickness, but I'd like to smooth out the internal ridges and create a surface that won't have a lot of nooks and crannies for powder to get stuck in.

 

[Crown_Pointer]

I have a Harbor Freight 12 ton press that uses a bottle jack for pressure. It's a convenient size for a home workshop.

FWIW here's one I made for when I get into it. It's made from heavy channel and a screw jack. The channel, where it will contact the horn, is covered with blank PCB material (fiberglass) I had kicking around. The square tube columns are welded to the base and the angle iron top is bolted to the columns (so you could slide the platen in during assembly). Not much to it. Squeezes pretty good!

 

[Pratt]

A wooden horn blank with fids, and a padded bench vise will be a good set up. Prep the horn as you want scrapped and drilled. Put the horn blank in the base end. Heat the horn over a hot plate and press in the wooden horn blank. Put the horn and blank Into the vise and slowly press the horn while tapping in the blank. Let it all cool over night or at least two hours. The flat horn is a good place for your scrimshaw.

 

[CEvonk]

FWIW here's one I made for when I get into it. It's made from heavy channel and a screw jack. The channel, where it will contact the horn, is covered with blank PCB material (fiberglass) I had kicking around. The square tube columns are welded to the base and the angle iron top is bolted to the columns (so you could slide the platen in during assembly). Not much to it. Squeezes pretty good!

That looks great! Is the screw from a vise or a book press? I had considered using scaffolding leveling jacks to build a press.

 

[CEvonk]

A wooden horn blank with fids, and a padded bench vise will be a good set up. Prep the horn as you want scrapped and drilled. Put the horn blank in the base end. Heat the horn over a hot plate and press in the wooden horn blank. Put the horn and blank Into the vise and slowly press the horn while tapping in the blank. Let it all cool over night or at least two hours. The flat horn is a good place for your scrimshaw.

Good to know. That is that track I'm headed down. Since the horn is black in most places, I'm thinking about using white to highlight any lines.

 

[CEvonk]

I cut the horn today. If I press it just right, I think it'll stand up on its own. It has a compound curve in it, so it'll be tricky to flatten the way I want to, but I have an idea about using some wedges to control the flattening, instead of just two flat boards. It may take longer. Or it may not work. I want to drill it and smooth the interior, which I think will help with the pressing, as there won't be ridges inside acting like structural webs along the surface to interfere with the pliability of the horn.

I was expecting the cut horn to smell like a trimmed hoof (which is nasty) or a burned piece of trimmed hoof (which is really nasty), but it just had a mildly plastic smell when I used the hacksaw on it. A mask is, without a doubt, required PPE for working with horn.

Using the dogs on the Workmate platform made it easy to hold the horn in place for cutting. (I didn't cut it with the tip of the horn in a hole -- I just put it there to take a picture.) In the cross section photos, you can see how dark the horn is internally.

 

[Pratt]

Well, ok but I don't see anything flat. Warming the horn up to insert the base plug works.

 

[CEvonk]

Also, I picked up this hole saw for shaping the spout. Drill the tip using a 5/32" bit, then follow that hole with the hole saw, which has a 1/4" pilot bit. The hole saw's ID is right at .625", which is the major diameter of a 5/8-11 NC bolt. Then I'll saw around the horn to remove a ring of horn from around the spout. That will allow me to thread the spout with a 5/8-11 NC die so that I can have external threads on the spout.

The spout end of the horn is eliptical, and is 1 3/4" on its major axis and 1 1/2" on its minor axis. That means that I'll need to pare down the side of the horn going toward the spout to get a concentric lip for the pewter spout end to screw on to.

The pewter spout tip will be 1" in diameter over the threaded horn spout.

So I'll need to pare 3/4" from the major axis of the horn, and 1/2" from the minor axis. Or I could leave some of the horn lip exposed and pare the horn a little less -- maybe extend the bee-hive design into a few rings around the horn tip. Hmmm....

 

[CEvonk]

Well, ok but I don't see anything flat. Warming the horn up to insert the base plug works.

I didn't get to the flattening part today.

 

[Crown_Pointer]

That looks great! Is the screw from a vise or a book press? I had considered using scaffolding leveling jacks to build a press.

I just had a shoulder-vise screw (Lee Valley 70G0151) that I was going to use for something else that I changed my mind on kicking around. Figured it was a good use for it. I'm sure your bottle jack will be fine

Keep up the great posts! Flat horns are nice.