Flea Market find, What is it?

[Eric Krewson]

A friend just picked this up at a flea market for $20. He thinks it is an older kit gun, about 44 cal, I just don't know. I told him to pull the barrel and look for any maker's marks or proof marks, haven't heard from him yet.

Look familiar to anyone? My friend is thinking about getting a lock close to the same size as the mortise and at least making a wall hanger out of it.

 

[desi23]

The modern looking drill marks in the lock recess certainly make me think it is either a kit gun or an attempt at a home built custom gun. The hardware doesn't look like any of the kits I remember building but it may have been one I never encountered. Maybe someone else will recognize it. Certainly looks to have some potential though!

 

[Wes/Tex]

This is another one of those guns that reminds me of the lyrics, "you really got me going!". Looked through a lot of old sources and found two pistols with the same grip style. One was a kit available from Dixie Gun Works in 1974 and the German company of Hawes from 1972. Though both looked very similar, the trigger guards are different plus other small differences. This may be either a totally different pistol or someone's attempt to build a pistol from parts. Good luck finding it's true identity...this ought to be fun! :wink:

 

[Zonie]

The drill marks don't necessarily mean the work was recently done.

Bits that leave the bottom of the hole like the ones in the lock mortice have been used for many years for making interrupted cuts and holes.

The patina on the barrel does give the appearance of age. Of course it could have been done last year but if so, whoever did it was good at his craft.

Although newly made guns don't belong in the Research area of the forum this gun has enough going for it that I think it should stay here for thoughts about it.

 

[Eric Krewson]

The gold or brass inlays in the barrel are what I found curious.

 

[tiger13]

It almost looks like it was once a flintlock, converted to percussion, then changed back to flintlock. A very interesting find.

 

[Many Klatch]

Looks like the barrel is swamped and the brass or gold inlays are unusual. You didn't say whether it was smoothbore or not but I'm betting there is no rifling. The stock looks like it might be Beech. The drill marks in the lock could be from some of the older manually cranked bit sets, so that doesn't necessarily mean that it is recent.

If it is Beech then that would point to a European history. My guess is that the barrel is a lot older than the stock but the stock has some age on it as well.

Many Klatch

 

[Mullet]

Hi, I'm the new guy that bought this at the Flea market. I pulled the barrel and there are no markings on it. The barrel has very clean rifleing and a .440 ball rolled down it real snug fitting.The trigger guard and brass almost looks like it was hand made, it has small pitting and kinda rough. The barrel has just light rust inside and out and has never been blued or browned.The initials got me interested, I couldn't figure out why someone had put them on an unfinished gun. And, thanks, Eric for posting this for me.

 

[jdkerstetter]

...The initials got me interested, I couldn't figure out why someone had put them on an unfinished gun....

What makes you think this gun is unfinished and not just incomplete???

I mean, what makes you think the missing parts weren't there at some point, making this gun finished?

Just curious and , J.D.

 

[KABAR2]

I have a feeling this was someone's home project back in the 1950's or 60's I have seen stuff like this before where Mahogany is used for the stock as it is an easy wood to shape it's someone's attempt to make a Kentucky pistol, I doubt the muzzle is swamped it looks that way because the wood swells slightly at the muzzle they used what tools they had at hand to inlet the lock most likely the lock was an antique worth more than the pistol and was taken off and either used elsewhere or sold separately...

 

[flintlockmdj]

More information and more pictures would be a big help I would like to see pictures of the bottom of the grip. The hardware seems to be a on of a kind thing but as was stated earlier it may just be something that I haven't seen before.

1.Is the engraving on the sideplate cut as with a graver stamped or molded in?
2.The bands on top of the barrel, are they gold, brass, or paint?
3.What is the length and width at the widest point of the lock inlet?
Any or all of this information will help answer your questions. Anything that you think is of any importance at all needs to be known. This is a very interesting piece and I think worth pursuing. You may find that it is junque but you will learn something from doing the research.

 

[Mullet]

Whitebear;
The widest point of the lock inlet is 1" and the length is 5'. Six inches from the end of the barrel the taper starts and gets a little wider in diameter, 11/16 at the lock end and a hair under a 1/2" at the end of the barrel.The initials and the engraving on the tang and brass looks to be cut in with engraving tools to me.I'm pretty sure by looking at the patina the the inserts in the barrel is brass.I hit a small spot with sand paper and it was real shiney. I clean it with steel wool tomorrow.

I'm new here so I'll have to figure out how to post pictures and then I'll get some close ups on.
Thanks for all of the help, guys.

 

[MacRob46]

Half-finished kit or possibly someone's project from scratch which got put aside and forgotten. I have a couple of those myself. I really do not think it is antique. The initials are probably an example of someone getting ahead of themselves in the construction process.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

The yellowish mark to the right of the initials looks like a filled in proof mark and maker's stamp

The trrigger guard resembles the traditions trapper.

I'd say cobbled. from parts

 

[TFoley]

The yellowish mark to the right of the initials looks like a filled in proof mark and maker's stamp

The trrigger guard resembles the traditions trapper.

I'd say cobbled. from parts

Yup.

tac

 

[Mullet]

I sure wish it had the lock and trigger. I'm sure I'll play heck finding a lock that will come close to dropping in. I'll probably get a stock and use these parts and start over. I can even sand the bottom loop off of the "B" in the initials and then they will match mine, EJP. :grin:

 

[mooman76]

It shouldn't be that hard to get at least close. Trace the opening and the holes where the hardware goes and compare to others. You could even send a copy to a company that deals with them and most will try to match it for you.

 

[Mullet]

Mooman,

You're right, I'll try that fist and see what I can come up with.

 

[Brian6396]

Nice find, I need to start spending time at the flee markets.

Any chance you will say which flee market you found it at? :grin:

 

[Many Klatch]

Track of the Wolf's catalog has full sized pictures of locks. You can save a lot of time by checking out their catalog.