flint lock pistols

[Lonesome Charley]

Hi there all you fellow smoke pole shooters. I am looking to get/build or what ever, a couple of flint pistols. I have couple of different long guns I want companions for. First is a 20ga trade gun. The second is a 54 cal trade rifle. Thinking something with a shorter, say no longer than 8” barrel that is easy to carry in my belt while hunting or on treks. Any thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated. I like the idea of one ball size so I shoot a .600 patched ball in my smooth bore and a 530 patched round ball in my 54.

Thanks

LC

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well there is the Pedersoli .54 "kentucky" pistol kit. https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...Pedersoli+Kentucky+Pistol+Kit+-+Flint+.54+cal.

I don't know how much wood is involved in the Kentucky kit, but you might be able to retrofit a 20 gauge pistol barrel to it...so you'd buy two of the above kits and then "upgrade" to the bigger barrel...have to trim it down though...https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?xm=on&p_id=BLPTR6212S

Now for a kit to go with the 20 guage trade gun, the largest Pedersoli kit I've found is a rifled Harper's Ferry. But that's a .570 ball. https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...ame/FH0411+Pedersoli+Harpers+Ferry+Pistol+Kit.
You might be able to have somebody open up the barrel to take a .590 ball, and then shoot those as well from the trade gun.

I think the .50 caliber Queen Anne smoothbore would "go well" with the tradegun, especially if you loaded it with a half ounce of #6 shot instead of a ball, and thus could take a squirrel or bunny if it wandered too close, without discharging your main gun. https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...t_name/FH0421+Pedersoli+Queen+Anne+Pistol+Kit

The only flint pistols that come close to a 20 gauge are the AN XIII and AN IX, French horse pistols, but I don't think they come as kits. http://www.cherrys.com/pedpics/S355b.jpg

LD

 

[plmeek]

Lonesome, you don't have too many choices. For factory guns, search Traditions and Pedersoli flintlock pistols. They have several models, but as Loyalist Dave points out, each would be a compromise for what you want.

To get something to better pair with your trade gun and trade rifle, you will have to look at custom pistols. Even there, suitable parts are hard to find.

Back in the 1970's, you had the choice of GRRW's Trapper Pistol in flint or percussion.

Or the Hudson Bay Factor's Pistol from Green River Forge. The Hudson Bay Factor's Pistol was pretty close to many original English pistols. Original on top and GRF Factor's Pistol on bottom.

Unfortunately, Green River Rifle Works and Green River Forge pistols are difficult to come by today, and therefore are expensive.

If you go the custom build direction, you could copy one of the pistols above. These would satisfy your .54 caliber need.

For a pistol to pair with your NW trade gun in 20 gauge, you might consider one of the pattern below. These were inexpensive English trade pistols that were imported into America by the thousands. They were used as horse and coach pistols back east and probably sold in hardware stores throughout the country. The Hudson Bay Co. and the North West Company ordered them for their trade, and they likely made their way to the rendezvous in the Rocky Mountains. The basic pattern changed little from the mid-18th century to the mid-19th century. The style of lock and the makers were the primary changes to the pattern over time. They all had round, smooth bore barrels and most were equivalent to modern 20 gauge.

This one is a Ketland from the late-1780s or the 1790s.

This one was made by Sharpe and probably dates to the 1820s.

Muzzleloaders Builder's Supply recently started offering a suitable trigger guard and butt cap for replicating one of these trade pistols.

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssup...gi?cart_id=5537351.31185&p_id=TGP-KET-B&xm=on

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssup...cgi?cart_id=5537351.31185&p_id=BC-KET-B&xm=on

They also offer round pistol barrels. Since these pistols were English, you should use a lock with a round pan such as the L&R Model 1700, Manton flintlock (Track calls it the John Bailes flintlock).

 

[Lonesome Charley]

Lonesome, you don't have too many choices. For factory guns, search Traditions and Pedersoli flintlock pistols. They have several models, but as Loyalist Dave points out, each would be a compromise for what you want.

To get something to better pair with your trade gun and trade rifle, you will have to look at custom pistols. Even there, suitable parts are hard to find.

Back in the 1970's, you had the choice of GRRW's Trapper Pistol in flint or percussion.

Thanks, My trade gun is a Green River Forge and I would love to find one of his pistols but you are right they are few and far between. I have looked at the suppliers..not much of what I am looking for. Not into building a kit. I will just keep my eyes open and see what might come along.

Thanks again.
LC

Or the Hudson Bay Factor's Pistol from Green River Forge. The Hudson Bay Factor's Pistol was pretty close to many original English pistols. Original on top and GRF Factor's Pistol on bottom.

Unfortunately, Green River Rifle Works and Green River Forge pistols are difficult to come by today, and therefore are expensive.

If you go the custom build direction, you could copy one of the pistols above. These would satisfy your .54 caliber need.

For a pistol to pair with your NW trade gun in 20 gauge, you might consider one of the pattern below. These were inexpensive English trade pistols that were imported into America by the thousands. They were used as horse and coach pistols back east and probably sold in hardware stores throughout the country. The Hudson Bay Co. and the North West Company ordered them for their trade, and they likely made their way to the rendezvous in the Rocky Mountains. The basic pattern changed little from the mid-18th century to the mid-19th century. The style of lock and the makers were the primary changes to the pattern over time. They all had round, smooth bore barrels and most were equivalent to modern 20 gauge.

This one is a Ketland from the late-1780s or the 1790s.

This one was made by Sharpe and probably dates to the 1820s.

Muzzleloaders Builder's Supply recently started offering a suitable trigger guard and butt cap for replicating one of these trade pistols.

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssup...gi?cart_id=5537351.31185&p_id=TGP-KET-B&xm=on

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssup...cgi?cart_id=5537351.31185&p_id=BC-KET-B&xm=on

They also offer round pistol barrels. Since these pistols were English, you should use a lock with a round pan such as the L&R Model 1700, Manton flintlock (Track calls it the John Bailes flintlock).

 

[YJake]

Here’s a 20ga trade pistol kit to match a trade gun or FDC.
http://sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/p-9/

And a French Dragoon style pistol in 20ga or 28.
http://sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/p-10/

I’m on the fence as to whether I want to build one or not.

-Jake

 

[Commodore Swab]

For me when someone asks my general questions are time period, nationality, location, and budget

 

[Lonesome Charley]

Here’s a 20ga trade pistol kit to match a trade gun or FDC.
http://sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/p-9/

And a French Dragoon style pistol in 20ga or 28.
http://sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/p-10/

I’m on the fence as to whether I want to build one or not.

-Jake

Thanks Jake. I.like the English Trade pistol. It would be a great companion to my NW Trade Gun

LC

 

[Lonesome Charley]

For me when someone asks my general questions are time period, nationality, location, and budget

Time period. During the Rocky Mountain Fur era. In the northwest region Fort Hall to the upper Missouri. American and budget is depending on what's on the table.

 

[caspar25]

Amazing, how can you take such perfect photos?

 

[Grenadier1758]

I think Phil has been taking pictures of firearms for a long time. They are so perfect because of practice.

 

[YJake]

Thanks Jake. I.like the English Trade pistol. It would be a great companion to my NW Trade Gun

LC

Let me know if you buy one. I’m tempted to get either the trade pistol or the Dragoon style pistol. Not sure whether I want a 20ga or a 28ga to match my .54 rifle.

Decisions decisions!

-Jake

 

[Lonesome Charley]

Let me know if you buy one. I’m tempted to get either the trade pistol or the Dragoon style pistol. Not sure whether I want a 20ga or a 28ga to match my .54 rifle.

Decisions decisions!

-Jake

Thanks Jake, I feel you on which to build. The only thing I would want different in the trade pistol would a an 8” barrel instead of the 10” and not sure cutting it down would look right with the proportions of the octagon portion. I would go for the 20ga to go along with my trade gun but the 28 sure would be nice with the J Henry I am planning on building soon too.
LC

 

[Lonesome Charley]

Lonesome, you don't have too many choices. For factory guns, search Traditions and Pedersoli flintlock pistols. They have several models, but as Loyalist Dave points out, each would be a compromise for what you want.

To get something to better pair with your trade gun and trade rifle, you will have to look at custom pistols. Even there, suitable parts are hard to find.

Back in the 1970's, you had the choice of GRRW's Trapper Pistol in flint or percussion.

Or the Hudson Bay Factor's Pistol from Green River Forge. The Hudson Bay Factor's Pistol was pretty close to many original English pistols. Original on top and GRF Factor's Pistol on bottom.

Unfortunately, Green River Rifle Works and Green River Forge pistols are difficult to come by today, and therefore are expensive.

If you go the custom build direction, you could copy one of the pistols above. These would satisfy your .54 caliber need.

For a pistol to pair with your NW trade gun in 20 gauge, you might consider one of the pattern below. These were inexpensive English trade pistols that were imported into America by the thousands. They were used as horse and coach pistols back east and probably sold in hardware stores throughout the country. The Hudson Bay Co. and the North West Company ordered them for their trade, and they likely made their way to the rendezvous in the Rocky Mountains. The basic pattern changed little from the mid-18th century to the mid-19th century. The style of lock and the makers were the primary changes to the pattern over time. They all had round, smooth bore barrels and most were equivalent to modern 20 gauge.

This one is a Ketland from the late-1780s or the 1790s.

This one was made by Sharpe and probably dates to the 1820s.

Muzzleloaders Builder's Supply recently started offering a suitable trigger guard and butt cap for replicating one of these trade pistols.

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssup...gi?cart_id=5537351.31185&p_id=TGP-KET-B&xm=on

https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssup...cgi?cart_id=5537351.31185&p_id=BC-KET-B&xm=on

They also offer round pistol barrels. Since these pistols were English, you should use a lock with a round pan such as the L&R Model 1700, Manton flintlock (Track calls it the John Bailes flintlock).

Thank you Phil...again you are a wealth of valuable information for me. I appreciate your input. The Ketland barrel is about the right length for what I am looking for and the L&R 1700/ Manton lock looks like the right way to go.
LC