Flint lock replacement by L&R

[Cogburn]

Does anyone have any experience with the RPL-03-F lock by L&R lock company that is advertised in the Track of the Wolf catalog? It is made as an "upgrade" replacement for the Thompson Center Hawken or Renegade rifle. I am looking to convert my percussion Hawken into a flinter and I want to know if this is substantially better than the factory lock that Thompson Center put on their flinters originally.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have a L&R replacement lock on my smoth bore and it is a very satisfactory lock. But the newer T C locks are much better than their old Flints.

 

[Cogburn]

I have been told that. I am looking for one of those newer locks. Is there a way of telling the old from the new by just looking?

 

[Kentuckywindage]

if its an older model lock why not just send it in to tc and write a note telling them to send the newer lock.

 

[Cogburn]

Well, I haven't gotten a lock yet but I want to get a good one when I buy. I see the used T/C locks for sale sometimes on forums or ebay but I don't know how to tell the new from the old and sometimes the sellers use some "wishful thinking" in their descriptions. I am trying to convert my percussion Hawken into flint and I would rather spring for a few more dollars to make sure I got a good lock. The L&R lock is more money than a used T/C and I don't mind paying the extra if it is a good lock. I have no experience in this area and I was wanting some input from you experienced guys.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

After years, TC finally recognized that their flint locks weren't that well designed and made and came out with newer locks. L&R is a much better lock than even the new TC. L&R folks better understand the metallurgy required and when they designed their locks, better understood the required geometry for faster and more reliable ignition. For fancy custom guns, there's really only Siler and L&R. I don't know if the L&R costs much more, but it is definitely worth it. There are even some black powder gun smiths around who can take down an L&R and fine tune them. A well tuned lock goes off so much faster and more reliably than a factory mass produced lock, that you won't believe the difference.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the forum Cogburn.

As your new here and I don't know how familiar you are with the available locks I should mention that the Siler lock mentioned by zimmerstutzen is not interchangeable with the TC locks.

The L&R replacement lock for the TC's is not exactly a "drop in" lock.

The L&R is a conventional design which uses a flat mainspring while the TC is a modern design that uses a coil spring.
This means the TC stocks lock mortice is not cut with the clearance that is needed for the flat mainspring on the L&R.

Cutting the needed clearance can be done with a narrow chisel and a transfer medium like lipstick. The lipstick is applied to the side of the flat mainspring. Then the lock is installed into the lock mortice. Areas of the stock which end up with lipstick on them need to be cut away.

Another more risky method is to use a Dremel tool with a side cutting burr.
This is more risky because a slight slip with these high speed machines can cause it to remove a lot more than was intended.

 

[roundball]

Yet another view...
That L&R is a carry over from decades ago when TC's Flint lock assemblies were not as good as they should have been.
TC redesigned their Flint lock assemblies in the mid 90's and they are outstanding now, no longer any need to consider a 3rd party lock.
Also, the L&Rs weren't just drop-ins...they required some modifications to the stock.

I've used & hunted several of TCs new design Flintlocks heavily year round for the past 10 years...many I made by converting some of my caplocks...the new Flint locks lack for nothing.

Also...Tom Fuller black english flints, 3/4" wide x 7/8" long are hands down the best flints for TCs new style locks...100% reliable ignition, long flint life, etc.

COMPARISONS:

OLD STYLE TC FLINT LOCK ASSEMBLY...note the severe "S" shape to hammer, and the "notch" in the back edge of the hammer at about 12 o'clock right above the hammer mounting screw...also, the hammer is quite short with the bottom jaw just barely clearing the "fence"...and the frizzen is case colored.

NEW STYLE TC FLINT LOCK ASSEMBLY”¦note much more gentle “S” curve shape (and no notch), it’s much taller with the lower jaw clearing much higher above the fence, the frizzen is solid jet black color.

PS: Also note TC's huge new style vent liner which you’ll want to get”¦$4-$5 for a two pack.

 

[Finnwolf]

I fall in with zimmer here - get the L&R and never look back.

I used the old T/C locks for nearly 20 years. They were spotty performers given to shattering flints and gouging frizzens. Flint life was always poor. I changed them every 20 shots or so because I'd get a lot of FTFs due to no spark. I noticed that the flints needed a lot of knapping because they got dull quickly from hitting the frizzen at the wrong angle and bouncing off of it, actually hitting it twice sometimes!

I noticed a lot of buddies with T/Cs either switching to the sawn agates or trading their T/C rifles in on Lymans and custom guns. One guy I hunted with switched to an L&R replacement in his T/C and he swore by it. I switched to agates and loyally stuck with the T/C because I believed T/C made the best production gun back then.

Couple years ago, I sent my old lock in to T/C for replacement because I heard people singing the praises of the new lock. Heard it went off every time and that they got 100 shots to a flint. I figured after 20 years of frustration, I could do with a lock like that. The new lock they sent me shattered 3 brand new premium black english flints in the first 17 strikes. I hunted with the gun 3 days that season and never took a shot at a deer but at the end of each day, the gun failed to fire on the first strike, every single time. I pay serious attention to my pan powder, flash hole, flint and frizzen when I'm hunting. My opinion is that the new T/C lock might actually be WORSE than the old one.

Do yourself a huge favor that you'll never regret - get the L&R - they make locks for their livelihood and they make very good ones. T/C makes only ONE flintlock model these days and they could care less about it. All they are is a pellet gun maker these days.

Good luck

 

[hockeyref]

So now I'm worried.....that picture of the old style TC looks exactly like the new Lyman GPR lock that I have sitting in my hand right now. I'm in the process of finishing the stock and will do the metal soon... now I wonder if I should just slap it all together and sell it.... I was looking at the lock geomety and wondering if it was gonna eat flints....

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Lets just say, I have several flint locks. one is a 20 year old NorthStar trade gun. I use that gun for both small game and deer as well as smooth bore matches at the local shoots. In the 15 years, I have had it I have not even changed flints. Just a lowly dark English flint that came in it, when I swapped for the gun. I don't know who made the lock, but it is probably a Siler. I also have an L&R on a custom long rifle. It goes off, fast, and while I have had to change flints in it, they last almost 100 shots. Just something about proper lock geometry. That flint has to swing down almost at the same arc as the arch of the frizzen. TC never really understood that. I will say however, that several folks I know got the old TC locks to work better by half soling the frizzen with 1/64th inch clock spring. Something about the proper carbon content of the spring stock as well as the extra layer of 1/64 metal added to the frizzen improves the lock geometry.

Get the L&R. You won't be sorry.

 

[roundball]

So now I'm worried.....that picture of the old style TC looks exactly like the new Lyman GPR lock that I have sitting in my hand right now. I'm in the process of finishing the stock and will do the metal soon... now I wonder if I should just slap it all together and sell it.... I was looking at the lock geomety and wondering if it was gonna eat flints....

I can't speak to the Lyman locks but they do look surprisingly like a TC and a chronic problem with TC's old style lock was eating flints due to the relatively short hammer...flints usually had to be used bevel down which threw the edge too high for the hammer's angle, causing them to bash too square into the frizzen face, making large pieces flake off, edges shatter, etc.
But TC's new style locks just work on and on like the ever-ready bunny...Fuller BEFs bevel up until they wear so short you have to flip them over for extended flint life

 

[ssettle]

I've a owned T/C rifle and it was an older style one never had any trouble with it. I sold it to a friend and he still uses it and likes it. I have an old CVA and a Lyman and have L&R's on both of them. To tell you the truth I expected better of the L&R but am satified with them. The L&R has a very strong V spring and you have to inlet your stock to make room for it. Both mine are alittle picky about flint placement but spark well. Do yourself a favor if your going to buy a new L&R shop around. Good luck.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I have a T/C Penn hunter with an L&R and a Renegade with the T/C lock and I really don't find a noticeable difference in performance. The T/C lock ate flints in as few as five shots until I ground the frizzen spring to about half original thickness, after that modification flints last reasonably well. I like the "feel" of the L&R much better, the T/C just feels sort of Micky Mouse but in terms of speed and reliability it works OK.

 

[hanshi]

After carefully reading all the posts it does sound as if the TC lock is a bit of a manure shoot; it may work great or it may not work at all. Consensus on the L&R appears generally favorable. I don't feel qualified to compare either lock so would suggest reading carefully, thinking about it and deciding based on that. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Yes, do that...and just drop those discarded T/C locks in the mail to me...I'll install the redesigned parts and have them running flawlessly in 30 minutes :wink:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Yes, do that...and just drop those discarded T/C locks in the mail to me...I'll install the redesigned parts and have them running flawlessly in 30 minutes :wink:

Hey Roundball,
Give me a hollar if this happens. Maybe we can do a before and after timing.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[roundball]

You sure proved TC's new liner I sent you was faster than the old standby White Lightning liner
:hatsoff:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

You sure proved TC's new liner I sent you was faster than the old standby White Lightning liner
:hatsoff:

That's one I never doubted Roundball, but people are just so enamored of that catchy name that I've never been able to convince anyone they don't need a "White Lightnin'". The thing I severely dislike about them is that once you tap for that odd-ball thread you're pretty much stuck with it.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

You sure proved TC's new liner I sent you was faster than the old standby White Lightning liner
:hatsoff:

I'm afraid the jury's still out on that. The comparison did not use the same diameter of hole. To really make that statement, we would have to drill the smaller diameter out to the same size as the larger one. The test would then have some validity. In the test your refer to the WL liner was drilled to .064" while the TC liner would pass a .073" drill bit.

At the time we did that test we were comparing breeches. We decided to use the TC exactly as it came from TC because we thought that is what most customers do. Besides we couldn't drill it smaller. :wink:

One conclusion we did draw was that large liners and large holes tend to stoot better dirty athn small ones. Hardly a new concept.

Regards,
Pletch