I am about to buy my first muzzleloader pretty soon. I have decided on a .50 Cal Great Plains Rifle but can't decide. Which is better for the first time shooter? Flintlock or percusion? I like the looks and authenticity of the flint and the history behind them but don't know about all the tricks to make them run. I just don't want to make a mistake and buy a rifle I'm not happy with when I'm having to sell modern firearms to get it.
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Flint or Percusion?
- Thread starter makattack
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Some people will tell you to get a caplock first and then graduate to a flint lock. I don't agree. I think if you want a flintlock, then by all means get it first, especially if expense is a consideration. You will end up with an extra gun that you will, in all likelyhood, never fire again if you get the caplock and then get the flint :crackup: and will have spent all that extra money for it.
I personally have never owned a caplock and found that the learning curve for the flinter was not as bad as some people would have you believe.
To me, it all boils down to preference. If your goal is to have a flinter, you will not be happy with the caplock.
:m2c:
I personally have never owned a caplock and found that the learning curve for the flinter was not as bad as some people would have you believe.
To me, it all boils down to preference. If your goal is to have a flinter, you will not be happy with the caplock.
:m2c:
There is a lot to read, study, and learn when starting into muzzleloading...starting with a caplock will let you focus more on the load development, shooting, cleaning, lubing, etc...without also having to learn all the aspects of the care and feeding of a flintlock mechanism at the same time you're trying to master all the above.
If you then switch to Flintlocks, all you'll have to concentrate on at that time is the flint lock assembly / ignition itself.
Someone mentioned the availability of real blackpowder and that's another definite consideration, whereas a BP substitute like Pyrodex is available at places like Walmart and works fine in caplocks.
Both types of muzzleloaders are fun, have there own challenges, and are a great experience...I started with caplocks, then transitioned to Flintlocks...if I had to do it over again, I'd do it exactly the same way.
:m2c:
If you then switch to Flintlocks, all you'll have to concentrate on at that time is the flint lock assembly / ignition itself.
Someone mentioned the availability of real blackpowder and that's another definite consideration, whereas a BP substitute like Pyrodex is available at places like Walmart and works fine in caplocks.
Both types of muzzleloaders are fun, have there own challenges, and are a great experience...I started with caplocks, then transitioned to Flintlocks...if I had to do it over again, I'd do it exactly the same way.
:m2c:
Runner's got a good point about powder. The percussion guns can eat the phony stuff more easily than our Flintlocks. That is one consideration. Yes, cap guns are fun too (and I've a number), but if I want to play with one, I want a minie gun (getting modern here). If I want old fashion, I'd take flint.
Getting powder really isn't that hard. You can buy them from Track of the Wolf but they sell them in 25 lb lots. Try for a group (club) buy to help the pain (and solve the storage problem).
Getting powder really isn't that hard. You can buy them from Track of the Wolf but they sell them in 25 lb lots. Try for a group (club) buy to help the pain (and solve the storage problem).
adbranaman
40 Cal.
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If you like fiddling with things then get a flinter.If you don't have patience then go for the caplock.Also you might consider if you'll get into reenacting or not.Then the Gun well make the period.Also some guns can be switched to flint from percussion and back agian.Just make sure yours well. 100.00 on a lock and liner well give a whole new gun(sort of). :imo: :hatsoff:
If you know someone (or can find someone) who is already into muzzleloaders, maybe you can put a few rounds through both, and decide which one you'd rather own.
I just bought my first muzzleloader, a percussion. I sort of wish I bought a flintlock, but I recognize the fact that I can be an idiot, and the simplicity of a percussion is a good thing.
BTW, today, I loaded my first ball without any powder underneath. :shake: The ball puller was *no* help, the ball wouldn't budge. However, I was able to pull the nipple and pour enough powder in the breech in order to shoot the ball out.
I told you I can be an idiot.
I just bought my first muzzleloader, a percussion. I sort of wish I bought a flintlock, but I recognize the fact that I can be an idiot, and the simplicity of a percussion is a good thing.
BTW, today, I loaded my first ball without any powder underneath. :shake: The ball puller was *no* help, the ball wouldn't budge. However, I was able to pull the nipple and pour enough powder in the breech in order to shoot the ball out.
I told you I can be an idiot.
That's not being an idiot, that's just part of being a muzzleloader shooter. Happens to all of us at some time.
My vote is to start with the Caplock.
As was said, there is much to learn about the Flintlock and even with the help of all of the flintlock shooters on this forum, the path is not always easy.
It is easy on the other hand to buy a Flintlock that isn't set up exactly right from the factory and that can cause the best of Flintlock Shooters to pull their hair out. (Ever notice that they are a little balder than caplock shooters? That's not from the flash in the pan! :: :
.
Just kidding, but seriously, there are several reasons the Caplock is a good starting place:
It burns black powder and the substitute powders.
It is historically correct for the late years of the Mountain Fur Trappers.
There were a number of reasons the owners of Flintlocks paid money to convert them into Caplock guns and reliable ignition was one of the main ones. A Caplock isn't real fussy about the caps it uses.
Flints wear out (sometimes rapidly) and are not always easy to find to buy.
Caplocks (IMO) are easier to sell if you decide to because most people don't have the foggiest notion of how to shoot a Flintlock and are cautious about buying one.
Caplocks are easier to shoot well. I say this not because of the "delay" most people expect from a Flintlock, but because it is dam hard to concentrate on the target when there is a small explosion that occurs right in front of your eye before the gun actually fires. Properly set up and primed, the Flintlock is almost as fast as a caplock. If anything is not quite right with a Flintlock, there is anything from a slight noticable delay to nothing but a "flash in the pan".
As for "having a Caplock you will never shoot after you buy a Flintlock", I say balderdash! I own and enjoy shooting both Caplocks and Flintlocks. Each has a place in history, and in my gun cabinet. They both are a hel of a lot more fun than a modern cartridge gun.
I prefer the Caplock for precision shooting and the Flintlock for the challenge of trying to do precision shooting with it and the general fun of shooting it.
By the way, I started with a Flintlock 35 years ago. Although I have no regrets in buying the Flintlock I later bought some Caplocks so you might say I've "walked in both moccasins".
If you can afford just one gun, start with the Caplock, then save your money and buy a Flintlock later. You will enjoy shooting both of them. :imo:
As was said, there is much to learn about the Flintlock and even with the help of all of the flintlock shooters on this forum, the path is not always easy.
It is easy on the other hand to buy a Flintlock that isn't set up exactly right from the factory and that can cause the best of Flintlock Shooters to pull their hair out. (Ever notice that they are a little balder than caplock shooters? That's not from the flash in the pan! :: :
.Just kidding, but seriously, there are several reasons the Caplock is a good starting place:
It burns black powder and the substitute powders.
It is historically correct for the late years of the Mountain Fur Trappers.
There were a number of reasons the owners of Flintlocks paid money to convert them into Caplock guns and reliable ignition was one of the main ones. A Caplock isn't real fussy about the caps it uses.
Flints wear out (sometimes rapidly) and are not always easy to find to buy.
Caplocks (IMO) are easier to sell if you decide to because most people don't have the foggiest notion of how to shoot a Flintlock and are cautious about buying one.
Caplocks are easier to shoot well. I say this not because of the "delay" most people expect from a Flintlock, but because it is dam hard to concentrate on the target when there is a small explosion that occurs right in front of your eye before the gun actually fires. Properly set up and primed, the Flintlock is almost as fast as a caplock. If anything is not quite right with a Flintlock, there is anything from a slight noticable delay to nothing but a "flash in the pan".
As for "having a Caplock you will never shoot after you buy a Flintlock", I say balderdash! I own and enjoy shooting both Caplocks and Flintlocks. Each has a place in history, and in my gun cabinet. They both are a hel of a lot more fun than a modern cartridge gun.
I prefer the Caplock for precision shooting and the Flintlock for the challenge of trying to do precision shooting with it and the general fun of shooting it.
By the way, I started with a Flintlock 35 years ago. Although I have no regrets in buying the Flintlock I later bought some Caplocks so you might say I've "walked in both moccasins".
If you can afford just one gun, start with the Caplock, then save your money and buy a Flintlock later. You will enjoy shooting both of them. :imo:
By all means, if you have the opportunity to go out with someone that has a flintlock - DO IT.
I think you will be surprised by the ease of the flintlock, from start to finish (shooting to cleaning).
It is just something that you have to learn, it takes practice as well as patience.
I've got my first black powder rifle, a Hawkins 50 cal. nipple gun. Its been several years since I've shot it due to the fact that I decided to buy a flinter (actually have several now). Both are good/great guns and both have killed several deer. For me, I just enjoy the flash, smoke and sparks (actually, I don't even notice it) - if your shooting like your supposed to, you won't either.
As for finding blackpowder - you can purchase Goex bp through powder.inc from 1# up to 25#'s.
Why don't you talk to the salesman at your local sporting goods store (no, not Wal-Mart or Dicks sporting goods) - there's got to be a local good ole boys gun shop somewhere you can visit.
I'm sure you'll find someone that will be happy to show you the in's and out's of shooting a flintlock :imo:
I think you will be surprised by the ease of the flintlock, from start to finish (shooting to cleaning).
It is just something that you have to learn, it takes practice as well as patience.
I've got my first black powder rifle, a Hawkins 50 cal. nipple gun. Its been several years since I've shot it due to the fact that I decided to buy a flinter (actually have several now). Both are good/great guns and both have killed several deer. For me, I just enjoy the flash, smoke and sparks (actually, I don't even notice it) - if your shooting like your supposed to, you won't either.
As for finding blackpowder - you can purchase Goex bp through powder.inc from 1# up to 25#'s.
Why don't you talk to the salesman at your local sporting goods store (no, not Wal-Mart or Dicks sporting goods) - there's got to be a local good ole boys gun shop somewhere you can visit.
I'm sure you'll find someone that will be happy to show you the in's and out's of shooting a flintlock :imo:
Johnny Tremain
Silversmith in training
yada, yada, yada
Here is a bit of firearms history:
"They never made a better gun, only a faster one"
I have to agree with Mr Garand.
The learning curve is a tad steeper with a flinter. But a well made, TIMED, flintlock is way faster then ANY caplock.
Plain and simple.
Yes the reload time for a cap is faster than a flinter.
We arent shooting people, so a few seconds, arent going to matter to a gong.
Now that I said that, Ill say if your buying a rack grade production gun, then by all means get a caplock.
Less apt to go bad, or need tweeking in order to work right.
Flinters arent for everyone, I will never own anything else.
But then mine is a custom built, and timed and altered one.
Here is a bit of firearms history:
"They never made a better gun, only a faster one"
I have to agree with Mr Garand.
The learning curve is a tad steeper with a flinter. But a well made, TIMED, flintlock is way faster then ANY caplock.
Plain and simple.
Yes the reload time for a cap is faster than a flinter.
We arent shooting people, so a few seconds, arent going to matter to a gong.
Now that I said that, Ill say if your buying a rack grade production gun, then by all means get a caplock.
Less apt to go bad, or need tweeking in order to work right.
Flinters arent for everyone, I will never own anything else.
But then mine is a custom built, and timed and altered one.
Like others here, I own both types. I hunt a lot, strickly black powder. There are days that the cap lock goes to the woods with me rather than the flinter. Weather usually determines this, sometimes the style of hunting I am planning on doing. My Hawken is a better weapon for snowy, rainy days and for ground hunting and stalking for instance (mostly because it is a lot shorter) Don't get me wrong, I can make that flint lock fire in any type of weather, but it takes an increased level of care to do so some days and I just don't feel like messing with it. All else being equal, I must say, my preference is the flint lock for hunting however.
As for which to buy first, I am another vote for the progression theory, get the cap lock, see if you like the sport, see if you like throughly cleaning your gun every time you shoot it before putting it up. If the bug bites you hard enough you will jump over to a flintlock and keep the cap lock. A man can never have too many guns I always say!
As for which to buy first, I am another vote for the progression theory, get the cap lock, see if you like the sport, see if you like throughly cleaning your gun every time you shoot it before putting it up. If the bug bites you hard enough you will jump over to a flintlock and keep the cap lock. A man can never have too many guns I always say!
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:huh:
:what:
Yeah, I'll bite on that one too. If you prime from the same powder as the main charge, whether from horn or paper cartridge, the flinter is considerably faster than a percussion. No fiddly little capper or loose caps to root around for in the bag.
If you use a priming flask they're about equal, unless it's a humid day and the pan is gumming up and you have to wipe it (adding two seconds if you hang a strip of cotton off your strap).
I would say a percussion is easier to learn on only for the resaon that the flint itself requires extra attention and occasional knapping. You don't HAVE to, but you'll get much longer life out of them if you know how to maintain a sharp edge instead of just replacing the flint with a new one. The difference between 10
I really didn't think about the availability of Black Powder. All I can find locally is Pyrodex unless a gun show comes to town. As far as which one do I like best, I like both. I guess the percusion would be better to learn on. Can a percusion be converted to flint later with the Great Plains?
I started shooting a flinter when I was 10 years old. I never owned a caplock until I got a C&B revolver at age 30. The knowledgeable dealer who sold me the revolver also sold me 100 prelubed .30-.40 caliber patches for it :youcrazy: .
Gordon Horn
40 Cal.
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From an avid Caplock shooter; I think it's really up to you. If, in the future, you think you'd like to be a Flint shooter, I'd buy a Flinter.
However, Caplocks are good rifles as well, look very authentic and shoot as good as any.
It comes down to personal choice, which would you ultimatly rather end up shooting?
However, Caplocks are good rifles as well, look very authentic and shoot as good as any.
It comes down to personal choice, which would you ultimatly rather end up shooting?
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