Flint Reconversion?
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don hepler
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By reconversion, I take it, that the rifle was once a flint that was converted to percussion. Now you would like to convert it back to flint. It would be my guess that flash hole was drilled and tapped to accept a drum. Then the same style lock plate (except percussion) was fitted. However, each rifle will vary, and so will each lock plate. I would pull the drum, and lay the flint lock plate, in place and determine if it will fit the mortise, and if it will line up with the drum hole location. A threaded liner, will have to be fitted into the barrel, and a new flash hole drilled. But, that's a lot of if's. I would expect it to be a more complicated endeavor, depending on the age of the rifle and the availability of similar components. I would need more detail of the rifle, pictures would help. Is it antique, or more recent custom build.? What lock is it ?
MSK
Smollett
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Thanks. I don't have one nor do I intend to engage in such a project. I was handling a c.1820 New England flintlock rifle and was astonished to learn that it had been reconverted to flint at some point. I took a closer look and couldn't figure out what was done to it. The most compelling question: was the original lock plate used and a new pan brazed back on? I imagine that the same plate was used in the percussion conversion by removing the pan and perhaps plugging the holes for the frizzen spring.
Smollett
Smollett
Telltale signs
The area around the touchhole in the barrel looks different than the surrounding surface. Restorers are good at this but you should see that the pitting or patina is different there.
The frizzen spring, pan, and cock don't match the patina on the lock plate. Often the parts are indentifiable to those who've been around. "that's a Siler cock" for example.
Threads in the cock screw that clamps the flint are modern. On original locks made of wrought iron the threads are usually sort of rounder topped than modern threads.
The area around the touchhole in the barrel looks different than the surrounding surface. Restorers are good at this but you should see that the pitting or patina is different there.
The frizzen spring, pan, and cock don't match the patina on the lock plate. Often the parts are indentifiable to those who've been around. "that's a Siler cock" for example.
Threads in the cock screw that clamps the flint are modern. On original locks made of wrought iron the threads are usually sort of rounder topped than modern threads.
54ball
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I'm going to say that maybe 50% of the " original flintlock" Southern rifles I have seen....all later period, Likely were built as percussion.
Just because the lock shows evidence of conversion does not mean the rifle was built as a flintlock. Especially in the early percussion period, unused flintlocks were converted to percussion on the bench and used on new "percussion rifles."
The tell tale flintlock groove in the stock above the lock may not be a reliable clue especially on a well used rifle. Is it really a groove for the stock or is it damage/erosion from the very corrosive percussion caps of the era. Sometimes this area has been repaired during the conversion making the original configuration ...lost to history.
The truth is many old percussion rifles are now flint. There is financial reason to do so. A flintlock is more collectible and many collectors/restorers look for any reason to enhance that value.
Just because the lock shows evidence of conversion does not mean the rifle was built as a flintlock. Especially in the early percussion period, unused flintlocks were converted to percussion on the bench and used on new "percussion rifles."
The tell tale flintlock groove in the stock above the lock may not be a reliable clue especially on a well used rifle. Is it really a groove for the stock or is it damage/erosion from the very corrosive percussion caps of the era. Sometimes this area has been repaired during the conversion making the original configuration ...lost to history.
The truth is many old percussion rifles are now flint. There is financial reason to do so. A flintlock is more collectible and many collectors/restorers look for any reason to enhance that value.
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Hi Mike,
I believe 54ball is referring to a groove in the wood above the bolster on the lockplate where the shoulder of the flintcock comes to rest on the lock. Percusion hammers often did not have shoulders and thus no need for a groove. However, many flintlocks did not require such a groove because the lock mouldings were very narrow and enough of the bolster exposed above the wood to accommodate the shoulder. If the original lock and lockplate were preserved during reconversion, the pan and bolster may show signs of being soldered or brazed on the plate. 54Ball is also bang on about some original percussion guns being "reconverted" to flint to raise the price.
dave
I believe 54ball is referring to a groove in the wood above the bolster on the lockplate where the shoulder of the flintcock comes to rest on the lock. Percusion hammers often did not have shoulders and thus no need for a groove. However, many flintlocks did not require such a groove because the lock mouldings were very narrow and enough of the bolster exposed above the wood to accommodate the shoulder. If the original lock and lockplate were preserved during reconversion, the pan and bolster may show signs of being soldered or brazed on the plate. 54Ball is also bang on about some original percussion guns being "reconverted" to flint to raise the price.
dave
don hepler
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Sorry, I misunderstood the OP, but my description of what it would take to reconvert, would also show how it would have taken place. Original flintlock would more than likely had the flash hole drilled. To repair the place where the drum was removed might be evident, depending on the quality of the fix. But, I'll leave that to the experts.
galamb
58 Cal.
It can be done to fool all but the best experts.
Here is a pic of a Christian Hawken rifle (Hagerstown MD, early 1800's rifle) that was converted to flint sometime in it's lifetime (Christian died in 1821 and had stopped building sometime before that, so pre-cap era).
Now, a number of months after I acquired the pics of the conversion, the rifle showed up at one of the (notable) auction houses as a C. Hawken flintlock.
(sorry about the poor pics - best I could cut/paste - maybe they were taken that way on purpose??)
It took a number of months before I even realized it was the same rifle (not that I'm an expert by any means)
Here is a pic of a Christian Hawken rifle (Hagerstown MD, early 1800's rifle) that was converted to flint sometime in it's lifetime (Christian died in 1821 and had stopped building sometime before that, so pre-cap era).
Now, a number of months after I acquired the pics of the conversion, the rifle showed up at one of the (notable) auction houses as a C. Hawken flintlock.
(sorry about the poor pics - best I could cut/paste - maybe they were taken that way on purpose??)
It took a number of months before I even realized it was the same rifle (not that I'm an expert by any means)
Terribly interesting subject and a FANTASTIC rifle. Got to say though that it "seems" like i see subtle differences between the two rifles. Looks like the escutcheon on the tang is spaced differently for example, wood grain seems different (could be lighting)... probably just my eyes though.. have you seen this rifle in person, is this rifle known to be converted? Thanks!
Jefferson Scott.
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I was involved with "the tail end" of a reconversion back to flintlock on an original Waters and Johnson Pistol, circa 1836, about a decade ago. The pistol's owner had passed before he had gotten it completely done and his widow wanted it finished as a memorial to him. I normally will not touch that kind of work, but my friend who brought it to me was a traveling man as had been the original owner. The pistol came to me disassembled in a shoe box with the parts in many plastic baggies.
The barrel, lockplate, and pan had already been reconverted. The cock and frizzen were original Waters and Johnson flintlock parts that matched the finish well, but not perfectly. It was a "scary nice" job done, but you could tell from the inside of the lock that the work had been done by the discoloration of the lock and a couple weld pin holes, plus the barrel condition where the percussion drum had been was slightly discernible.
Fortunately there were no side lock bolts with it and I decided to deliberately re-tap it and use modern side lock screws. I reshaped the heads on them a little different than original screws - so there were two more things that would stand out as a reconversion. The sear was broken, though I actually found two originals at a Civil War show and one worked great as found with a little work. The mainspring was broken in half, so I deliberately used one of Dixie's replacement mainsprings (instead of an original) so that too would be noticeable.
When the pistol was completed, I returned the broken original sear and mainspring in a small cloth bag that was to be kept with the pistol.
The widow was delighted and had the pistol framed in a glass covered shadow box for display and placed the cloth bag inside as I had requested. I wrote in pencil (because pencil lasts longer than pen ink) on two small pieces of folded linen paper that it was a re-conversion and date and tucked one under the lockplate and one in the barrel, but I told no one about them and they are still in the pistol. I also wrote a note detailing what I had done and the date, that I requested be attached to the back of the shadow box and the Widow did that as well. The Widow's son and daughter both want the gun when their Mother passes to keep the gun in the family, so for at least one more generation, it won't be sold on the market as a fake.
Gus
The barrel, lockplate, and pan had already been reconverted. The cock and frizzen were original Waters and Johnson flintlock parts that matched the finish well, but not perfectly. It was a "scary nice" job done, but you could tell from the inside of the lock that the work had been done by the discoloration of the lock and a couple weld pin holes, plus the barrel condition where the percussion drum had been was slightly discernible.
Fortunately there were no side lock bolts with it and I decided to deliberately re-tap it and use modern side lock screws. I reshaped the heads on them a little different than original screws - so there were two more things that would stand out as a reconversion. The sear was broken, though I actually found two originals at a Civil War show and one worked great as found with a little work. The mainspring was broken in half, so I deliberately used one of Dixie's replacement mainsprings (instead of an original) so that too would be noticeable.
When the pistol was completed, I returned the broken original sear and mainspring in a small cloth bag that was to be kept with the pistol.
The widow was delighted and had the pistol framed in a glass covered shadow box for display and placed the cloth bag inside as I had requested. I wrote in pencil (because pencil lasts longer than pen ink) on two small pieces of folded linen paper that it was a re-conversion and date and tucked one under the lockplate and one in the barrel, but I told no one about them and they are still in the pistol. I also wrote a note detailing what I had done and the date, that I requested be attached to the back of the shadow box and the Widow did that as well. The Widow's son and daughter both want the gun when their Mother passes to keep the gun in the family, so for at least one more generation, it won't be sold on the market as a fake.
Gus
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Thinking back, I SHOULD have stamped for letters spelling out F-A-K-E on the inside of the reconverted pan, but I am sorry I did not think of it at the time. However, I will mention that to my friend the next time I see him.
Gus
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Hi Gus,
Well done. I wish more folks were as honest as you.
dave
Well done. I wish more folks were as honest as you.
dave
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Thanks for the kind words. I do have to say there was a real war in my conscience about doing the project at all. I took a month before I finally agreed to do it and only because she was the Widow of a Brother and to a much lesser extent, the pistol would most likely have been lost to history had I not done it. This was a very special case and I seriously doubt I will ever do it again.
Gus
Gus
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Smollett
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Graham: Thank you for the photos and story. It is a sad and compelling tale. That percussion conversion was a beautiful demonstration of yankee thrift. It was documentation of what did appear to be an original flintlock, quite possibly converted by the village blacksmith. That hammer gave it an almost spooky quality. Now that it is a flintlock again, beauty and evidence are erased for posterity. i agree with Dave in his comments about Gus...
Smollett
Smollett
galamb
58 Cal.
JonnyReb said:
Did not see it in person but here is a couple more sets of pics - the reconverted rifle is the top two pics - the (original conversion) is the bottom two.
Note particularly the few small dings near the carving in the butt on the cheek side.
The rifle was not only re-converted to flint, it looks to have been "cleaned up" as well.
Now, I have no issue with that - I'm not one that believes that the gun is "ruined" by cleaning it up (just personal view there - I get that many consider that sacrilege) - I just hope all the work was "fully disclosed" to the buyer/potential buyer.
No doubt it's the same rifle...
I do not care for reconversions. Conversion to percussion is a valid part of the history of the firearm.
Having said that, I recently acquired a Birmingham made double 12 bore that was converted to cap. It had been a quality gun when made, "waterproof" locks. The pans were cut away, surplus holes plugged, and drums fitted to the touch holes. This gun is really hurting. Top rib is off, serious neglect. Blanked out a new tumbler for the right lock yesterday. Percussion hammers long gone.
It was really cheap, because of its condition. I am seriously considering rebuilding it as flint. Raised a dent in the right barrel, and polished out both bores. Not too bad, might shoot. I think I will install touch hole bushes in the nipple seats, and test fire the barrels. If everything works out, I'll proceed with rebuilding it.
Having said that, I recently acquired a Birmingham made double 12 bore that was converted to cap. It had been a quality gun when made, "waterproof" locks. The pans were cut away, surplus holes plugged, and drums fitted to the touch holes. This gun is really hurting. Top rib is off, serious neglect. Blanked out a new tumbler for the right lock yesterday. Percussion hammers long gone.
It was really cheap, because of its condition. I am seriously considering rebuilding it as flint. Raised a dent in the right barrel, and polished out both bores. Not too bad, might shoot. I think I will install touch hole bushes in the nipple seats, and test fire the barrels. If everything works out, I'll proceed with rebuilding it.
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Hi Graham,
It may just be an illusion but it looks like there was a beaver tail extension on the lock panel that is now gone. I have a feeling that rifle was refinished several times during its life.
dave
It may just be an illusion but it looks like there was a beaver tail extension on the lock panel that is now gone. I have a feeling that rifle was refinished several times during its life.
dave
I see where everyone is coming from, but in this case, go for the flint. The "serious neglect" is part of the history of the gun too, but you are, rightly so, eliminating that aspect. Do your best to restore the gun to its original quality. It deserves no less.
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