Flinter or caplock?

[Zonie]

If I am serious about getting a shot when I want or obtaining the best accuracy (for me) I will use one of my Percussion guns.

If I am just wanting to have some extra fun and add some extra challenge with my shooting I'll use one of my Flintlocks.

Both systems have their advantages.

 

[roundball]

RB is right on this one. It looks like you live here in Wyoming. As you know it seldom rains that much. :thumbsup:

I was real pleased with myself this past deer season...one of the days I hunted during the rut it was raining when I left the house and rained all day...never even hesitated about taking a Flintlock...killed a good 3 year old 8 pointer at 2:30 in the afternoon with my .62cal Flintlock rifle...kept the lock up under my coat all the time, refreshed the prime every 30 minutes, etc...when I dropped the flint she fired off like a .30-30.

I had kept 3 caplock round ball rifles around during the past 10 years "just in case"... .45/.50/.54cals...but never hunted with them again...so I finally just sold the .50 & .54cals last month...kept the .45cal just so I'd have at least one caplock...probably hang it over the mantle or something

 

[Maestro]

Flintlock for everything...rifles, smoothbores, small game, big game, targets, year round, older technology, the country was settled with them, very satisfying to learn about and use them, etc...all reasons why most folks who get bitten by the Flintlock bug don't return to caplocks
:grin:

:thumbsup: My sentiments exactly... couldn't have said it better, so I won't. :hatsoff:

 

[ghostdncr]

For me, it's a matter of freedom.

For all practical purposes, I can make gunpowder. I can cast ball if I can procure lead, and there's enough lead available in the environment to allow that for the rest of my days and then some. I can gather flint from the ground and knap to fit my hammer.

The flintlock has the potential to be a self-contained, easily sustainable firearm. I'm dependent on no one else to keep my rifle in working order. Once you switch over to percussion you become mostly dependent on the sutler for caps.

I'm far from certain, but couldn't this be construed as the beginning of the culture that now sustains WalMart and all the other big-box stores?

If I can't keep it working in the middle of nowhere with whatever tools I have amongst my possibles, my system probably needs refining.

 

[redwing]

I lived and hunted for many years in central Wyoming. That area between Clarks Station and Medicine bow. Now it really blows in the Shirley Basin country.
I think if you have a good lock and a Chambers WL vent it will fire in a strong wind. You will need to fire the rifle in the wind with different pan charges. Once you get your confidence up you will be OK. As you know a good flinter will fire up side down. You will find the rifle will fire that way in a strong wind. Work at it. "Ole" Jim Bridger didn't wait for a Blue Bird day to take an Elk. Cowboy Up. :thumbsup:

 

[Swampman]

Quality flintlocks are every bit as reliable as caplocks so don't let that concern sway your decision.

I used to say the same thing when I shot flintlocks only. The truth is a quality flintlock will go off 95% of the time if everything is exactly right. A caplock might misfire once in a 1000 shots.

I've never seen a flint last more than 15 shots, and that's really streching it IMO. It cost more to shoot a flintlock for that reason. I'm just relating what I've witnessed since the late 1970s.

 

[roundball]

Using flat top 3/4"W x 7/8"L Tom Fuller black English flints in my redesigned T/C locks, I average about 60-75 shots per flint, usually without knapping...if I start knapping them I can run them up around the 90-100 shot level.

My normal routine is to use one flint for a 50 shot range session (flipping it over periodically) then usually get well into the next weekend's 50 shot session with the same flint...when I have to start knapping it every few shots I usually just replace it rather than waste the time knapping.

A cap @ $4/100 cost .04cents/cap....04cents/ignition.

At a low average of just 60 shots per each $1.20 3/4" flint, each shot is only .02cents/shot.
Add in the cost of 3 grns 4F @ .004...that's "point zero zero four"...and the total cost of a Flintlock's ignition is half the cost of shooting caps.

And when considering the # of shots per flint is usually actually more than 60, and a few caps in a can are duds or dropped/lost...the cost per shot from a flint is even less than half...and I sure wouldn't own a lock or use a flint that only gave me 15 shots per flint

 

[Swampman]

I've owned, shot, and observed nearly every lock currently on the market & some that aren't. I've yet to see one that would get over 15 shots with a Fuller flint or any other flint. Most of the time it's more like 10 shots. I never have a cap fail to fire. I rarely pay more that $3.00 a hundred for caps, and sometimes a lot less. I've only been at this since the late 1970s so maybe I missed something.

 

[RC]

15???????? that's it????? I've gotten 70+ easily outa some flints,,minumum 35....if I put everythin together right..main reason I switched to flint for huntin was reliability...! caplocks were VERY undependable during my use huntin...an flinters are easier to fix afield...imho.

 

[brubincam]

-----I can usually shoot same flint all day--just wiping the smuck off every shot-----

 

[Finnwolf]

"Unlike most folks, I don't see an interest in flintlocks as a sign of being more advanced in the hobby. They are mearly a different interest."

I agree with this statement. By all accounts I should be a flinter fan borne and bred. I started out in this hobby with a flinter over 20 years ago. I've shot nothing but flinters and PRB's for all that time because the state I live in limited me to that combination during the blackpowder season for most of that time.

This year, I gave up using CF guns and will hunt BP in all seasons. When it came time to choose a rifle for the regular deer season, I chose to go with a cap lock and a fast twist conical barrel. When I chose a BP smoothbore for turkey, I again chose a caplock. The reason I made these choices is that if I call in a turkey to within 25 yards (no choke in my barrel) or if I see a nice buck within a hundred yards, I want the gun to go off.

I've only owned T/C flinters all these years and I've had too many experiences with them not going bang when called upon, even though I've done my part. To some, that risk is just part of the hunt and that's OK for them. For me, I want a gun that reliably does the job.

 

[Bretwalda]

:thumbsup: I have friends that reside in both courts...but I am percussion thru and thru. 30+ years of ML experience has tought me that the greatest reliability that I can count on is a caplock :grin: Flinters are fun but if you are new or inexperienced I say use a cap lock. I am not a strong historian but after percussion locks were invented, what was used to hunt dangerous game in Africa? I think there was a reason that early big game hunters hunting the most dangerous game stuck with a percussion system not a flint system when reliabilty was really, really important. Many here may argue against me...and so I say all babies are beautiful (intheir mother's eyes at least) and does it really matter which you chose? :shake:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I have both and use both, but enjoy them for different reasons. When it came time to have a custom rifle made for deer hunting I went flintlock and am glad I did. For wing-shooting or upland game I prefer a short(er) percussion shotgun.

There is just something about a flintlock that is lacking in a percussion. The marvel that something so exposed and primative works so well. It certainly adds a bit of challenge in foul weather and a lot of satisfaction all the time. At least that's the way I feel.

 

[Doug Lykins]

I understand both preferences. This discussion reminds me of another pastime I've enjoyed, traditional archery. There are bowhunters that will shoot nothing but a longbow, believing it to be the purist tool of bowhunting. Still others will only shoot bows that they themselves have built. Others shoot a common recurve because they simply shoot it better and are completely content. Starting to see the resemblance?

There's no question that flintlocks are beautiful rifles. At a period of time in history when some of the most beautiful rifles ever were built,the flintlock was the mechanism that was utilized and has provided fine service. The flinter I acquired late last year is the most beautiful, elegant rifle I've ever owned of any kind and I've owned many high end centerfire rifles. I don't intend to replace my flintlock with a percussion. If I ever sell it, it will be for other reasons.

On the other hand, as a hunting tool, logic tells me from an engineering standpoint that a percussion will perform more reliably. You have a concentrated charge that is very hot directed into the breech and ninety nine times out of a hundred it should go bang. Many, if not most, of the antique rifles I've seen that were originally flintlocks had been converted to percussion back in the day. I don't think our forefathers would have bothered with making the conversion for no reason.

I hope to own and enjoy both types.
Thanks all for you input :thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

On the other hand, as a hunting tool, logic tells me from an engineering standpoint that a percussion will perform more reliably

I can tell you I have been using flintlocks exclusively for hunting since 2004 and in that time I have never once wished I had a percussion instead. I harvested my 10th flintlock deer this year. Not one time has any of my guns failed to fire.

 

[Doug Lykins]

I can tell you I have been using flintlocks exclusively for hunting since 2004 and in that time I have never once wished I had a percussion instead. I harvested my 10th flintlock deer this year. Not one time has any of my guns failed to fire.

That's excellent results, 10 more deer than I've ever taken with any kind of muzzleloader.

 

[musketman]

Another plus for flintlocks is that you can use them to start a camp fire, I have done this.

With the gun unloaded and unprimed, take a small piece of char cloth and place it in the pan and close the frizzen. Have some form of dry fodder close at hand, cock and fire the action of the flintlock.

The sparks will ignite the char cloth, remove the glowing char and place it in the dry fodder and fan or blow until you have your flame.

Yes, it can be done with a loaded gun and a tooth pick, but I do not recommend that. If you have no char cloth place a tuff of dried grass in the pan and a few grains of priming powder (less than a pinch), this will also work.

 

[Swampman]

http://home.att.net/~mman/Guns.htm

An interesting article....

 

[rabjr]

http://home.att.net/~mman/Guns.htm

An interesting article....

Because flintlocks would fire successfully approximately 7 times out of 10 in dry weather and under good conditions, percussion rifles were gradually accepted because of their much greater reliability.

I assure you Mark I'm getting wayyy better than 7 out of 10 times. If I was getting 7 out of 10 times like that article says, I wouldn't be using flintlocks. Wouldn't want nothing to do with them.

 

[roundball]

On the other hand, as a hunting tool, logic tells me from an engineering standpoint that a percussion will perform more reliably

I can tell you I have been using flintlocks exclusively for hunting since 2004 and in that time I have never once wished I had a percussion instead. I harvested my 10th flintlock deer this year. Not one time has any of my guns failed to fire.

Amen...exclusively since 2001 for me...have NEVER had a Flintlock failure hunting, and that in spite of hot, cold, rain or shine...has nothing to do with how pretty...just pure reliability.
If I could only have one side lock it would be a Flintlock without question...caplocks can be too finicky with their 90 degree fire channel, powder can migrate away from under the nipple, etc...but with a Flintlock the powder is right there perched in the vent hole all the time.