Flintlock Disassembley Help

[fischereco2]

Hey all,

I finally got a chance to shoot my flintlock today after waiting nearly a year. I just hadn't been able to source black powder and I've always been too short on cash to pay for ordering it in bulk online. Anyway, long story short I got me some powder and man, what a rush! I'm fighting the urge to sell every modern firearm I own and buy more flintlocks!

I went home and started the process of cleaning the rifle but was dismayed to find that I could not remove the lock. The rear screw on the lock plate simply will not budge. The first came out with quite a bit of effort and appeared to be covered in Loctite. I bought this gun new from Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading, so I am a little perplexed by this. Is my rifle not intended to come apart? The ability to remove the lock would sure make cleaning the barrel easier and less likely to ruin the wood finish on my piece...

 

[frogwalking]

What you are describing is not normal. These lock bolts should be snug, but not real tight. I have never heard of anyone applying locktight to these threads, and can think of no good reason for doing so. I strongly suggest you call Matt Avance the first thing in the morning at 1 601 445-5482 and ask for directions. In the mean time, don't force the lock screws, but do clean the bore and wipe off the visible parts of the lock. If you have it, use a commercial black powder solvent. I would be sure the bore was dry of water and oily before putting the rifle away, even for the evening.

 

[don hepler]

If your rifle has a browned finish on the lock and screws, it is possible that the rust browning process is still going on. Generally, the rust browning process has been neutralized, but delaying the disassembly while waiting to buy powder, may have allowed it to rust even if it's browned or blued, which ever the case.

I would put a small drop of penetrating oil on the rear screw, and give it time to penetrate, then try removing it again.

I remove the lock, following each shooting session, and clean the lock, and properly oil it, before putting it back in the gun.

Any screw that is being removed and replaced on a regular basis, should have a light grease, such as white lithium, placed on the threads, to reduce wear.

There are red, green, and blue Loctite. What color did you see?

 

[fischereco2]

Thanks for the advice. I thought perhaps my delay in breaking down the gun let rust creep in as well, although the other screws show no sign of that. The threads on the other screws are all covered in a blue plasticy substance which looks like dried loctite.

 

[Len Graves]

Sometimes a little heat will help soften lock tight. You might try a soldering iron on the thread end of the bolt if possible. This might even help penetrating oil to get in a little farther. I also have never heard of using lock tight on lock screws as they are made to be removed while cleaning. Good luck.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Never heard of that being done (Loctite on the lock bolts, that is).

I pull the lock every time I clean but leave the barrel pinned in place. If you have a small wire brush clean out the threads. Like Frogwalking said: the lock should be snug but not wood-squishing tight.

 

[MSW]

that is truly a strange thing. :shake:

there should not be locktite on that part. the advice to call Matt is a good is a good idea, and you should do so at your earliest convenience. I'd give the soldering iron thing a try, too ... don't go nuts with it, but it couldn't hurt and will probably help.

good luck with your project!

 

[frogwalking]

Last night I forgot to add that custom rifles often have screws with unusually thin screwdriver slots. Regardless if this is the case or not, it is very important to use proper gunsmith type screwdrivers that correctly fit the screw heads. I have given several custom rifles to my children and grandchildren, and I always include a set of gunsmith screwdriver bits and handle. Believe it or not, Walmart sometimes has inexpensive sets that are of decent quality, sold in their gun section. Any time you are putting serious torque on a screw, you really need a properly fitting screwdriver.

 

[Coot]

So right. :hatsoff:

 

[Vaino]

Never heard of putting Loctite on a lockbolt and if so, somebody screwed up.....possibly the threads are loose or too shallow. Whoever made that rifle should be called and asked about that "lousy practice"....if indeed it is Loctite.

The statement that a good fitting screwdriver tip is right on for all screws......and especially the stubborn ones or those w/ narrow slots. That's why all the screw heads on all my MLers are "Kasinited" {carburized and hardened}. Boy, do I hate "buggered up" slots.....which are the evidence of incompetence or impatience.....Fred

 

[ohio ramrod]

I also advise penetrating oil. I prefer Kroil but have good results with a 50/50 mixture of acetone and automatic transmision fluid. :idunno:

 

[fischereco2]

TVM insists there is no way they put Loctite or anything similar on these screws. I may be wrong, but it sure looks that way to me. Take a look at the one I managed to get out:

I noticed that blue crud around the screw when I received the gun and even thought to myself "That's weird to see modern loctite on a muzzleloading gun" but in my ignorance I did not realize that was a screw that would eventually need to come out so I sort of wrote it off. I know, it's my own fault for not breaking down the gun completely when I got it, but regardless I would expect a little better considering what I paid for the piece.

I've tried the soldering iron trick with no luck. I will let some penetrating oil soak and see if that helps. Even with the right sized screwdriver it won't budge an inch and I am afraid of slipping and damaging the screw head...

 

[frogwalking]

Was this rifle made to order specifically for you? What is the possibility that this rifle had been previously sold and the (first) owner put the Loctite on the screws? Blue Loctite should allow the screw to be removed without the level of force you indicate. As someone suggested, the only possible reason I could think of using Loctite here would be if the fit of the screws was too loose. Matt has made a lot of guns, and I have never heard of this happening before.

 

[hoochiepapa]

Permatex??

 

[fischereco2]

This gun was made specifically for me by TVM, not bought second hand. I am a fan of their work and I sang their praises when I received my gun. I'm not looking to disparage them in any way, but I can say with 100% honesty that someone on their end did something odd here. I didn't put any substance on these screws myself and regret it later, and there is no chance someone else did either. Like I said, I noticed it from the moment I unboxed it but being the flintlock newbie I was I didn't realize those screws had to come out at some point so I chalked the apparent thread locker up to efficiency.

What really rubs me the wrong way is TVM implying that I'm yanking their chain when I invested a significant amount of money in one of their products and am not looking for anything other than an explanation, advice, and possibly a single replacement screw if I have to mangle this one to get it loose.

 

[frogwalking]

I once bought a S&W .45 that was sold by a reputable gun store as new, but after disassembly, discovered that it had been extensively dry fired without the slide. The aluminum frame was badly damaged. Smith replaced the frame, and I have been happy with it for years. That is the only reason I suggested this as a possibility. I have no other plausible explanations for what you are experiencing. Good luck.

 

[don hepler]

That screw just looks corroded, like acid. Is that screw brass? Could just be the picture.

Maybe they let water get down under the barrel out of the touch hole during the barrel cleaning process. I'm assuming that they test fired the rifle.

Blue Loctite would not cause this situation. So I'm going to rule that out.

Hopefully you'll get the screw out, and get it cleaned up and lubed, and that should take care of the situation.

 

[garra]

If that is a Loctite/super glue type material (cyanoacrylate) acetone will clean it up or loosen it.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I bought an ROA from a seller at a gun show who claimed it was unfired, then admitted that the previous owner may have fired it a little. No problem there, but when I disassembled it at home, I found the nipples were installed with red Loctite. It took a couple of days soaking in acetone to loosen them up.

There's absolutely no need to use Loctite on any black powder firearms, since, sooner or later, every part will be disassembled for cleaning or maintenance.

 

[54ball]

I agree, I don't think it's lock tite. It's a new rifle, likely it's just rust from either the browning or the stain process especially if AF was used. It's possible that some brass dust has settled in the threads from the side plate...all those factors together give it a greenish blueish hue.

fischereco2

Fix...

About the only one I can think of that's viable(how do you soak a screwed in lock bolt in MEK or anything for that matter, without ruining the stock finish?), is to break it loose with sharp but light impact. Just like you do with brass screws on steel or steel screws on aluminum. Steady torque like with the driver alone may break the driver or screw before it turns loose ...It needs impact force.

Two things are needed 1. a proper fitting driver/turnscrew and 2. a small brass hammer or non marring hammer.

Tap the screw head a few times with light but sharp blows then try to turn it with the turnscrew. Repeat over and over again until it turns loose. It may take an hour or more but eventually it will turn loose....... :idunno: What else can you do?
tap and turn tap and turn...eventually it'll give it up.

PS Remember for the hammer work you are not trying to drive railroad spikes...light but sharp taps.