Flintlock , Eagle on lock ( American ) Belgium 15/16'' Tapered Octagon to round, 51'' long barrel. .54 cal.

[Bill Rowe]

Bought this at local auction, thought it was a wall decorator from picture, but not. Nice strong flintlock with stamped eagle , looks like the one off a Springfield rifle. JB Makers Mark, Made in Belgium stamped on top of a 51'' barrel smoothbore .54 cal. Kind of reminds me of the eastern type flintlocks that were used by Nomads . Any thoughts ? Thank you, Have a nice day.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Dixie Gun Works?

 

[Bill Rowe]

Dixie Gun Works?

???? could you elaborate. Thank You

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Just looks kinda like the kind of guns that Turner Kirkland used to source out of Europe in the '50's, '60's,

 

[Rudyard]

It appears to be a variation on a theme trade gun made up from a huge stock of surplus parts . The Eagle is unusual but it if works its fine. No other category other than 'Got up to use ' really fits .But looks sound enough is bound to be proof tested so you cant go wrong , just stay with black powder should give you years of service . Might be some Bicentenial offering going by the eagle
Regards Rudyard

 

[Bill Rowe]

Thank You, Bill

 

[Eric Bye]

This looks like a Belgian trade musket; many were sent to Africa during the colonial era.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

This looks like a Belgian trade musket; many were sent to Africa during the colonial era.

The colonial era for the most part in Africa ended in the 1970's... so that trade gun isn't that old.

LD

 

[rickystl]

Hi Bill

The gun you posted is typically called a Belgium "Trade" gun for a lack of a better term. The one you have with the 51" barrel was probably made in the 1960's and marketed here in the U.S. by a couple of companies, Century Arms being one of them. They called your gun the "Long Tom" LOL. You will probably find the stock on your's is a two-piece affair, with the rear barrel band covering up the divide. You're lucky your gun has the one piece lock plate which probably utilizes a long v-type mainspring. Others were made with a two-piece lock plate affair utilizing a coil mainspring that worked, but was less attractive. I owned one of these. Frizzen had to be re-hardened. Guess they started running out of the surplus one-piece lock plates (?)
The one-piece lock plate dates to the 1950's and earlier. The earlier ones, dating back to the turn of the 20th Century, were of higher quality and as mentioned were originally intended for the natives in the South African market. Occasionally, one of these earlier ones comes up for sale.
Apparently, sometime during the 1960's the shop(s) in Belgium making these guns must have determined there was a better market in the USA. Possibly with America's approaching Bicentennial. And likely the reason for the eagle stamped on your lock plate. But I do remember seeing ads in gun magazines back then for your exact gun. They had at least three different models sold here in the 60's. One was 4 gauge that Dixie sold back then called an "Elephant Gun". There was not much variety of shootable, replica muskets available in the 60's like there was starting in the 1970's. I had one of the two-piece lock in the standard model I bought in 1964 I believe. Paid $35.00 for it plus shipping. Your "Long Tom" was like $5.00 more, but didn't come out till a year later.

Belgium has a long history, going back to at least the latter half of the 19th Century of buying up old surplus gun parts from governments, etc. and building inexpensive guns for the general public utilizing a combination of new and surplus parts. That's why many of the muzzle loading guns are often hard to identify their origins. They were often made later than they would first appear.

Rick

 

[oldwood]

Saw one of these back in about 1969 in a local dept. store. Knew nothing about it ,and was gone when I went back for it couple days later. Think it was marked LIEGE ..........oldwood

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Ricksie You nailed it bang on . The' South Africa' is a broad brush might cover all below the equator some old ex pat Africa hand might clarifie that . I never saw such a gun along the West coast mostly it was' Dane' or' Foo Foo' guns locally made but things changed since & doubtless after 1965. I'me told AK s are as likely found in that region but I've no desire to go back & see. If youd'e care to post pics of the Dane gun flintlock 'After' Jimmo Babatundi please do . It was typical of the ones I saw & on one occasion borrowed to sort out an amourous cats concerts ( it had genuine square nail head stamped ' checkering' but was percussion.)Some times called a' country gun ' survival rate must be very low but Ime sure some Peace Corps volunteers would have taken some home as a souvenier . Regards Rudyard

 

[Bill Rowe]

Hi Bill

The gun you posted is typically called a Belgium "Trade" gun for a lack of a better term. The one you have with the 51" barrel was probably made in the 1960's and marketed here in the U.S. by a couple of companies, Century Arms being one of them. They called your gun the "Long Tom" LOL. You will probably find the stock on your's is a two-piece affair, with the rear barrel band covering up the divide. You're lucky your gun has the one piece lock plate which probably utilizes a long v-type mainspring. Others were made with a two-piece lock plate affair utilizing a coil mainspring that worked, but was less attractive. I owned one of these. Frizzen had to be re-hardened. Guess they started running out of the surplus one-piece lock plates (?)
The one-piece lock plate dates to the 1950's and earlier. The earlier ones, dating back to the turn of the 20th Century, were of higher quality and as mentioned were originally intended for the natives in the South African market. Occasionally, one of these earlier ones comes up for sale.
Apparently, sometime during the 1960's the shop(s) in Belgium making these guns must have determined there was a better market in the USA. Possibly with America's approaching Bicentennial. And likely the reason for the eagle stamped on your lock plate. But I do remember seeing ads in gun magazines back then for your exact gun. They had at least three different models sold here in the 60's. One was 4 gauge that Dixie sold back then called an "Elephant Gun". There was not much variety of shootable, replica muskets available in the 60's like there was starting in the 1970's. I had one of the two-piece lock in the standard model I bought in 1964 I believe. Paid $35.00 for it plus shipping. Your "Long Tom" was like $5.00 more, but didn't come out till a year later.

Belgium has a long history, going back to at least the latter half of the 19th Century of buying up old surplus gun parts from governments, etc. and building inexpensive guns for the general public utilizing a combination of new and surplus parts. That's why many of the muzzle loading guns are often hard to identify their origins. They were often made later than they would first appear.

Rick

Thank you kindly Rick, It is a one piece lock plate. At a .54 cal. smooth bore. Do you think with a low powder charge , it could still be shot ? I love to shoot flints, not looking to prints 5X's. Bill

 

[rickystl]

Hi Bill

As long as the bore checks out OK shouldn't be a problem. First check to make sure the barrel is not loaded. It probably needs a good cleaning. These guns were probably fired back after the original purchase, but have likely been sitting dormant for many years. Should also take the lock off and clean and inspect. If you do take the lock off, maybe post a pic of the inside. See if I'm right about that long mainspring.

I use to shoot mine back in 1964/5. I was only 14/15 and would also shoot blanks in the back yard. This, a northern suburb of Chicago - if you can believe that. LOL No one cared back then.

Rick

 

[Bill Rowe]

Hi Bill

As long as the bore checks out OK shouldn't be a problem. First check to make sure the barrel is not loaded. It probably needs a good cleaning. These guns were probably fired back after the original purchase, but have likely been sitting dormant for many years. Should also take the lock off and clean and inspect. If you do take the lock off, maybe post a pic of the inside. See if I'm right about that long mainspring.

I use to shoot mine back in 1964/5. I was only 14/15 and would also shoot blanks in the back yard. This, a northern suburb of Chicago - if you can believe that. LOL No one cared back then.

Rick

When I went to look at it in the auction , I thought by picture it looked like a wall hanger. I could blow through the barrel and here the hole sound off. The lock was very strong, had a flint in jaw and gave a spark when dry fired. When I won, and brought her home I ran a rag down , and came out light red , and felt smooth. I had to jimmy a couple of aluminum cleaning rod together to make barrel length. I have a chunk gun that was the longest barreled till this gal came along , I will have to get a box to stand on to load it.... When I get a little more closer to shooting it, I will drop the lock off , take a picture and give you rapport back. Cheers my friend, Bill

 

[Old Sparky]

Looks like I have the same one only with the two piece lock plate. It does have the eagle. My parents had it hanging over the fireplace they would have acquired it in the late 60s or early 70s. I inherited it from my dad and 2008. I've always wondered about shooting it. I remember when I was a little kid I would stand on a chair and cock it close the frizzen and dry fire it LOL. It does not look like it has ever been fired the inside of the barrel looks like it's covered and in grease or cosmoline or something. The barrel is 51 in. The barrel says spesco Corporation made in Belgium

 

[Rudyard]

Though your Pic isnt clear it looks like the older surplus locks that were wedded to a section with the steel ( Frizzen) so to use up guns or' got up' ones for trade guns or novelties say for the Bi Centenial of the revolt If they make sparks & are Proofed nothing wrong with them , Bit ungainly but safe if proofed for black powder Rudyard

 

[oldwood]

These guns were sold in dept. stores in the late 1960's , through early 1970's. I wanted one,but had just bought a house........Estimated cost of these musket's was around $75.

 

[MPindera]

Bought this at local auction, thought it was a wall decorator from picture, but not. Nice strong flintlock with stamped eagle , looks like the one off a Springfield rifle. JB Makers Mark, Made in Belgium stamped on top of a 51'' barrel smoothbore .54 cal. Kind of reminds me of the eastern type flintlocks that were used by Nomads . Any thoughts ? Thank you, Have a nice day.

Bought this at local auction, thought it was a wall decorator from picture, but not. Nice strong flintlock with stamped eagle , looks like the one off a Springfield rifle. JB Makers Mark, Made in Belgium stamped on top of a 51'' barrel smoothbore .54 cal. Kind of reminds me of the eastern type flintlocks that were used by Nomads . Any thoughts ? Thank you, Have a nice day.

I just acquired this exact flintlock. The original owner bought it in 1953. He has since passed away and one of his buddies gave it to me. I was very surprised at how long the barrel is! Any idea what specie of wood is used for the stock?

 

[oldwood]

With a really good picture , a wood type might be identified.

 

[Rudyard]

Not sure about Nomads or the wood it might be Beech it would 'nt matter . There just' Got Up' useing old surplus stuff once very plentiful in Liege don't copy any thing much but seemingly sound & passed proof so just enjoy them for what they are . It would be a very big book & study to try to pin down all these got up from old stock parts . If there was any sort of demand Liege would endeavor to fill it . All that big influx Dixie offered was just some of the sweepings and very useful they where . Or I found them useful at least.
Rudyard