Flintlock eats flints... What to do about it?

[FlinterNick]

Tuning a lock isn’t as hard as it sounds especially when you know how your lock works when its working at its best. I check for the following with my locks, questions.

Is the frizzen firm, wobbling ? Has the inside of the bridal arm worn away? This will cause the frizzen to move out of line with the cock.

Springs: Springs lose tension over time, do I need to reharden and temper ?

Internal Bridal: Is The internal bridal locking up the tumbler?

Tumbler Grooves: are they sharp, chipped, dull.

Sear edge: Is the sear edge sharp and catching ?

Fintcock: is the flint sturdy, are the jaws firm, is more friction needed between the top and lower jaw?

Frizzen: Is the frizzen surface too chewed up? A chewed up frizzen face will smash up flints, I polish and reHarden.

I just case hardened a frizzen over the weekend, sparks better than a new Lock.

 

[rich pierce]

Tuning a lock isn’t as hard as it sounds especially when you know how your lock works when its working at its best. I check for the following with my locks, questions.

Is the frizzen firm, wobbling ? Has the inside of the bridal arm worn away? This will cause the frizzen to move out of line with the cock.

Springs: Springs lose tension over time, do I need to reharden and temper ?

Internal Bridal: Is The internal bridal locking up the tumbler?

Tumbler Grooves: are they sharp, chipped, dull.

Sear edge: Is the sear edge sharp and catching ?

Fintcock: is the flint sturdy, are the jaws firm, is more friction needed between the top and lower jaw?

Frizzen: Is the frizzen surface too chewed up? A chewed up frizzen face will smash up flints, I polish and reHarden.

I just case hardened a frizzen over the weekend, sparks better than a new Lock.

I’ve not seen springs lose strength over time before. I’ve got a rifle I’ve been shooting since 1979 and the lock is fast as ever.

I think most of your advice is good but applies to a lock that once functioned well. This lock has never functioned well and the model is known to have issues.

 

[FlinterNick]

I’ve not seen springs lose strength over time before. I’ve got a rifle I’ve been shooting since 1979 and the lock is fast as ever.

I think most of your advice is good but applies to a lock that once functioned well. This lock has never functioned well and the model is known to have issues.

It depends how well the springs were made and how often They’re used and how well the lock is cared for.

If I don’t like the feel of a lock, I will retemper the springs that I think are weak.

For locks that were not made well from the start, things get somewhat tricky. It involves the overall geometry of the lock. The steps I wrote, should help.

For older Pedersoli PA and KY rifle locks I often found that the flint cock doesn’t follow through enough downward, fixing this requires filing down the shoulder on the flint cock very slightly. These locks also had poor frizzen to pan fit, usually the frizzen cover was not flush.

Lastly, sometimes the tumbler isnt flush to the plate, this. Is a little more complicated and requires some filing down of the tumbler shoulder.

Pedersoli also did a lot of case hardening back then, when case hardened surfaces wear down they tend to be course, dents and grinding occurs... a good polishing may help.

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Tuning a lock isn’t as hard as it sounds especially when you know how your lock works when its working at its best. I check for the following with my locks, questions.

1. Is the frizzen firm, wobbling ? Has the inside of the bridal arm worn away? This will cause the frizzen to move out of line with the cock.

2. Springs: Springs lose tension over time, do I need to reharden and temper ?

3. Internal Bridal: Is The internal bridal locking up the tumbler?

4. Tumbler Grooves: are they sharp, chipped, dull.

5. Sear edge: Is the sear edge sharp and catching ?

6. Fintlock: is the flint sturdy, are the jaws firm, is more friction needed between the top and lower jaw?

7. Frizzen: Is the frizzen surface too chewed up? A chewed up frizzen face will smash up flints, I polish and reHarden.

I just case hardened a frizzen over the weekend, sparks better than a new Lock.

Thanks for this! I numbered your questions above so that I can easily answer them here RE my flintlock pistol in question. My knowledge about the parts of a lock is weak, so my answers are as best as I can provide.

My answers to are:
1= no, it's very tight. (see #3 too below)
2=new lock, so I expect not,
3=I don't know what a bridal arm is, but it's a new lock, and everything is tight.
4=I don't exactly know because I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to know what a tumbler groove is. But... new lock, so I expect they aren't dull yet!
5 = Again, not sure what "sear edge" is but if you refer to the flint being sharp or not, yes very sharp (new), but probably too large (see below),
6= Quite sturdy with a lead wrap instead of leather; some have suggested I consider swapping to leather, I assume to provide a little cushion
7 = No. Frizzen shows strike areas, but it's not beat up, and so it seems (to me) to be hard (no divots or dents where a flint grabbed). It's still quite polished.

I have new flints on order from TOTW in different (smaller) sizes. I'm going to try those next, along with a closer examination of how the flint hits the frizzen, and possibly angling the heal up, flipping the flint upside down, and maybe using leather instead of lead in the jaws. Tests will be my eye-ball examination of spark volume, hoping to maximize sparks without chewing up flints too quickly.

Incidentally, I still got sparks at the range when this started to fail after 5 or so shots, but I wasn't getting ignition. I managed to get ignition by multiple cocks/firing, cleaning the flash hole, more or less powder in the pan. I'm not new to flintlocks, just this pistol, so I did all the usual things that I would do in this case, and ultimately concluded that the spark volume definitely decreased, and since parts of the flint were chipped away, so I'm attacking flints first in the hopes that will solve my issues. This lock is much tighter than my rifle (opening and closing the frizzen/pan is stiffer), so I'm worried about that being too tight too, though my rifle's is probably a little too loose, so it's hard for me to tell (I loose powder out of my rifle pan).

Rob

 

[FlinterNick]

Thanks for this! I numbered your questions above so that I can easily answer them here RE my flintlock pistol in question. My knowledge about the parts of a lock is weak, so my answers are as best as I can provide.

My answers to are:
1= no, it's very tight. (see #3 too below)
2=new lock, so I expect not,
3=I don't know what a bridal arm is, but it's a new lock, and everything is tight.
4=I don't exactly know because I'm not knowledgeable enough yet to know what a tumbler groove is. But... new lock, so I expect they aren't dull yet!
5 = Again, not sure what "sear edge" is but if you refer to the flint being sharp or not, yes very sharp (new), but probably too large (see below),
6= Quite sturdy with a lead wrap instead of leather; some have suggested I consider swapping to leather, I assume to provide a little cushion
7 = No. Frizzen shows strike areas, but it's not beat up, and so it seems (to me) to be hard (no divots or dents where a flint grabbed). It's still quite polished.

I have new flints on order from TOTW in different (smaller) sizes. I'm going to try those next, along with a closer examination of how the flint hits the frizzen, and possibly angling the heal up, flipping the flint upside down, and maybe using leather instead of lead in the jaws. Tests will be my eye-ball examination of spark volume, hoping to maximize sparks without chewing up flints too quickly.

Incidentally, I still got sparks at the range when this started to fail after 5 or so shots, but I wasn't getting ignition. I managed to get ignition by multiple cocks/firing, cleaning the flash hole, more or less powder in the pan. I'm not new to flintlocks, just this pistol, so I did all the usual things that I would do in this case, and ultimately concluded that the spark volume definitely decreased, and since parts of the flint were chipped away, so I'm attacking flints first in the hopes that will solve my issues. This lock is much tighter than my rifle (opening and closing the frizzen/pan is stiffer), so I'm worried about that being too tight too, though my rifle's is probably a little too loose, so it's hard for me to tell (I loose powder out of my rifle pan).

Rob

Sear edge or Sear tooth is the beveled end that catches the tumbler grooves.

New Locks are not free from design issues, most of the lock tuning I‘ve had to do is on newer locks.

The most common thing I see in new Italian flintlocks is that the mainspring is just not that strong, out of all my guns I’ve had to replace Pedersoli mainsprings Exclusively. European gunmakers use a type of spring steel that is very delicate And requires tempering at a much lower consistent temperature.

You’ll want to make sure the flint is always sharp and the frizzen is clean And the locks is clean and oiled.

Or send it to a gunsmith who can forge a stronger mainspring out of 1070 or 1095 steel stock.

I’d recommend Jim Casco from Vermont, he makes springs often.

802-235-2457

 

[MIOutdoorsman]

Thanks for this. I do think (regrettably) that I'll end up sending this off to a flintlock builder/smith for tuning, and I appreciate having Jim's info here to refer to along with the other name (above). I hope not to need to do this, but I expect that I will have to. Dang it.

 

[ord sgt]

I have been using Siler locks in my rifles for years. With some flints, I have had them lose their edge after 2 hammer falls. Knapping the edge failed to restore usefulness. Other flints, I have had them last until they became so short that they became useless. But this is not just with Siler locks. I had a Dixie lock that worked just as well. Same with an L&R lock.
It all depends on the flint, IMHO.