Flintlock guns with no vent liners

[Rifleman1776]

But I never understood his obsession against vent liners

I have known Danny more than 40 years and, like you, never understood his opposition to liner either. Dad, Charlie is same way. They can put on quite a dog and pony routine talking about them. But, also consider they were similarly adamant that no rifle should ever had a twist other than 1:48". Same kind of dog and pony show on that matter. I understand that currently their rifles have a 1:56" twist. :hmm: Don't agree with you on other comments you made about Danny.

 

[tenngun]

Has anyone timed the difference :hmm:

I have guns with liners and without, I can flinch just as well with both :haha:

B.

I’ve not timed it, but it ”˜feels’ like my North West Gun without a liner is a little slower then my guns with useing similar barrel thickness. But honestly in shooting my NWG against my centermark Tulle it shoots the same.
None,or at least a very few of us have a 100% perfect copy of an original. So in realistic terms a liner is no different from a modren steel barrel, as far as I’m concerned since few guns had a liner in the old days I won’t put a liner in my next build.

 

[Leadball loader]

The vent liner is a modern option for muzzleloading guns that many shooters feel is important. The caywood coned vent is what some high end English gun makers used in the 18th century.
My choice has been to keep as close to the vent original guns of the model I’m shooting would have had. My Fusil de Chasse,NW Trade gun,and model 1728 French Infantry musket would not have been high end guns.
These guns are Indian made copies from Access Heritage in
Canada reflecting much of the workmanship you might have seen in the early 1700’s only in modern steel. They have all required work to be usable, but have been accurate and fun to use and work on. Like a partial assembled kit.
I am learning to shoot on guns like those that would have come from Tulle or St Etienne. It has been fun!

 

[Rifleman1776]

The vent liner is a modern option for muzzleloading guns

Not necessarily. Fine cased guns from olde Europe often are seen with vent liners. Usually these are platinum to prevent burning out. Not so new. Agree, not usually found on many fowlers and trade guns but not a new concept.

 

[Leadball loader]

When I said modern I was referring to shooters today and did not phrase things correctly. There are options today the average shooter would not have had access to in earlier times.
It is always interesting to hear about developments from another prospective.
Shooting the flintlock smoothbore has been enjoyable for me though I’ve got a lot of improving to do. I see some every time I shoot so I expect to spend a lot of time shooting this year.

 

[rickystl]

The only issue I've experienced with vent liners is in combination with the tiny 1/16 hole size. At least in my experience, they tend to clog easily causing mis-fires (flash in the pan). A cleaning patch that is a bit too wet would compound the problem.
So I changed to just a damp patch and that seemed to help. But would still get the clogged vent too often.
So I started to leave the vent pick in the vent hole while reloading. And that helped a bunch. So it got me thinking that 1/16 hole is just too small. So I drilled the hole in the liner out to 5/64, and that, along with the revised cleaning procedure solved my problem.
Hard to believe just that tiny bit of enlargement made such a difference.
So I started to check the vent hole size on my non-lined barrels and they are at 5/64 - or even 3/32 on some of the originals. None of these ever had the clogging problem.

Rick

 

[tenngun]

I like a 5/64 and don’t have misfires.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Too wet is always bad news in this game.
And going up a step in drill size is a fairly large percentage increase when dealing with something that small. The design of the liner, location of the touch hole, etc. will affect ignition efficiency. Like 'em or not in a smoothie, liners do allow adjustments and correction to give reliable performance.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Touch Hole Sizes
I made up a chart in Excel to show the increase in area of the touch hole with respect to a 1/16" touch hole. The diameter is in inches and the area is in inches squared.

Drill Size - Diameter - Area - Percent Increase
1/16 ----- 0.0625 - 0.003067962 - 0.00%
no. 52 --- 0.064 - 0.003216991 - 4.86%
no. 51 --- 0.067 - 0.003525652 - 14.92%
no. 50 --- 0.070 - 0.003848451 - 25.44%
no. 49 --- 0.073 - 0.004185387 - 36.42%
no. 48 --- 0.076 - 0.00453646 - 47.87%
5/64 ----- 0.078 - 0.00479369 - 56.25%
no. 47 --- 0.0785 - 0.00483982 - 57.75%
no. 46 --- 0.081 - 0.005152997 - 67.96%
no. 45 --- 0.082 - 0.005281017 - 72.13%
no. 44 --- 0.086 - 0.005808805 - 89.34%
no. 43 --- 0.089 - 0.006221139 - 102.78%
no. 42 --- 0.0935 - 0.006866147 - 123.80%
3/32 ----- 0.094 - 0.006902914 - 125.00%

As we can see in the chart, the increase in area from 1/16" to 5/64" is an increase of 56%. The area of the touch hole more than doubles when you go to 3/32".

Most of the up-sizing recommends a No. 51 drill and the 15% increase in area of the touch hole seems to work well.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Mike

Well, that's really interesting. No wonder. Thanks.
I do understand the theory of wanting the smallest hole - that is practical. It just seems that the combination of the tiny 1/16 hole and the cone of the vent liner tend to trap the fowling too easy.
Anyway, seems others agree on the 5/64. Good to know.

Thanks again Mike.

Rick

 

[hawkeye2]

Thanks for taking the trouble to calculate that and for posting it. Enlightening :thumbsup:

 

[Britsmoothy]

I don't strictly buy into 1/16" being to small!
What I do not agree with also is this habit of cleaning the barrel all the time while shooting!
That is going to do more harm than good regarding the flash hole.

If the hole size alone was the issue in causing blockages then cap locks would not work at all!

I agree many a modern reproduction gun manufactures do drill itty bitty holes and I often open them some, but while shooting I don't swab my bores and suffer no blocked vents, flint or other!

B.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

When I make touchhole liners, I always make the hole 5/65"
As it works I won't fix it.

I use 3/8" stainless and cone it out well on the inside. Actually, a bought liner (Other than Jim's white Lightnin') just about fits inside these.

All the best,
Richard.

 

[Feltwad]

When I make touchhole liners, I always make the hole 5/65"
As it works I won't fix it.

I use 3/8" stainless and cone it out well on the inside. Actually, a bought liner (Other than Jim's white Lightnin') just about fits inside these.

All the best,
Richard.

I always use when needed a full thread Allen screw filed back from the point to 1/16 with a 1/16 hole drilled through the centre. This gives you a distance from the priming powder to the main charge of 1/16 and instantaneous ignition .If the hole gets too large remove the vent with a Allen key and replace a new one. I have used this method for many decades with little trouble
Feltwad

 

[azmntman]

hotoSmile:

 

[Feltwad]

hotoSmile:

Image enclosed
Allen screw vent 1/16 touch hole in the centre of the screw

 

[PK]

Feltwad, my first post here. When you file the Allen screw back from the point to 1/16" do you mean the length of the screw is only 1/16" when you screw it into the vent hole?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Is that a cap screw or grub screw Feltwad?

B.

 

[lbothell]

When I first starred shooting, since I didn’t have anyone to show me or know any different, I didn’t know a vent liner was a thing ha. All my guns are without em. Through experimenting I found this to help:

Make sure vent hole is free of any burs or what not, a run of a drill bit of the same size of your hole will insure this

Always pick your vent hole, it becomes habit pretty quickly

After the gun is loaded I check with my pick, by sticking it in the vent hole, that I get a gritty feel so I know that powder is all the way down

Next when I put powder in my pan I turn the gun on it’s side slightly and tap it. This makes sure some grains of powder go into the vent hole. Don’t pack it in there it needs air around it, tapping it in will insure it has space.

This has helped me a lot just following these steps, and once you do it it becomes second nature. I use 2f in my pan and barrel just bc it’s easy. Gun doesn’t delay or anything actually it freaks people out how fast it goes off, and as it should shouldn’t be a delay. When I get a delay it’s either bc I packed the powder in the vent hole, vent hole isn’t clean, or I don’t have any little grains of powder in the vent hole. Just what works for me hopefully it helps with you too! I love not having a vent liner it’s just something different

 

[Feltwad]

Feltwad, my first post here. When you file the Allen screw back from the point to 1/16" do you mean the length of the screw is only 1/16" when you screw it into the vent hole?

The length of the Allen Screw is filled back from the point to 1/16 from the bottom of the hole of the key leaving a plate through which a 1/16 vent hole is drilled. This brings the priming powder closer to the charge therefore a quick ignition.
Feltwad