FLINTLOCK identity help required

[Va.Manuf.06]

A very conventional militia musket ca. 1820-30 made from a mixture of surplus or condemned parts (barrel) and imported parts (lock and trigger guard). Very few NE militia muskets have sling swivels, all carried bayonets and all that I've handled (maybe 200 of them)had English import locks. This large size lock isn't uncommon...I saw such a musket only this weekend at a small local show. It likely never saw the Tower of London...that marking is just there because people associated it with good quality. Without seeing the barrel I wonder what is wrong with it though because it should have gotten the "V" stamp before the "P" stamp if its a federal inspection. Probably 1/2 of the militia muskets I've seen had barrels made by Asa Waters and carry the Massachusetts proof of Luke Harrington although there were other and earlier Massachusetts barrel makers and quite a few more official inspectors.
Massachusetts dropped the requirement that everyone eligible for militia duty keep his own gun in 1832 and very few, if any were made after that date.

JV Puleo and Mike Brooks are correct, it is what collectors call a New England Militia Musket. The barrel appears to be a barrel made for an earlier US musket and may never have had the V (for "View") mark, it was simply proved, indicated by the recessed "P". At the time that this musket was made, the US muskets were in a state of transition from the late M1795 type to the M1816 and there was a surplus of new, unused early barrels available. The "Tower" lock is unusual on these but not uncommon, most that I have seen used civilian fowler locks. There are no British government inspector's marks on the lock so it was most likely never used by the English. You have a very nice gun in "as built" condition, many were converted to percussion.

 

[jpc]

Thank you for your opinion and help.
I just purchased it last weekend and began to have my doubts.
It is nice to come accross something that has not be abused by it's many past owners.
The only information that I received from the seller is that it had British proofs and came from a collection.
Well as we know now there appear to be no British proofs, but I can believe that it did come from a collection

Thanks again

 

[JV Puleo]

They are very under appreciated guns and one of the best examples of something that can still be found in easily shootable condition and not cost an arm and leg. I used to specialize in them and had something like 40 examples at one time. About 15% of them have barrel bands and are in the style of the contemporary contract and armory arms. The quality ranges from deplorable to excellent. I do not think this is an officer's gun, in fact I don't think many New England militia officers carried muskets at all...the sword being a far more important status symbol while the "officers fusil" was usually the arm of a junior officer on active duty. Muskets for officers were never favored in American service... Washington positively forbid them, which isn't to say they didn't exist but that they were far less common than is generally thought. When you do see a militia musket with elaborate silver wire inlay or engraved fittings they are almost always for well-to-do militiamen or members of well-to-do volunteer companies.
As noted above, most were converted to percussion but a reasonable number of them are still flint. I believe this is because it was required that every male citizen of militia age be armed but by no means were they all interested in hunting or shooting. When the requirement to be prepared for muster went away the guns were put aside and never used again.

 

[jpc]

Once again thank you and I appreciate everyones input.

jpc

 

[JV Puleo]

I ought to have mentioned that the only book to examine these guns in detail is George Moller's "Massachusetts Military Shoulder Arms" published by Mowbray Publishing (manatarmsbooks.com) although I believe it is now out of print. You might be able to find a copy using bookfinder.com or contact the publisher as there may be a few slightly dinged copies still available.

JV Puleo

 

[jpc]

I will check into the book
Many thanks

 

[jpc]

Now that I have it I will have to list it in my insurance policy.
My Flayderman's is quite old.
Any idea of a value range?

jpc

 

[Zonie]

The 9th Ed of FLAYDERMAN'S GUIDE TO ANTIQUE AMERICN FIREARMS...and their values which just became available in 2008 lists the value of a "New England Flintlock Militia Musket" in Flintlock style as being $800 (Good) to $1750 (Fine).

Had it been converted to Percussion it would be worth over $400 less.

 

[jpc]

Thanks Zonie and thanks for your help with photo bucket

jpc

 

[BLAHMAN]

I'm gonna go out on a limb....try to remove the lockplate and see if there are numbers on any parts or inspectors marks, a proof perhaps....it sorta looks like that cypher was stampmed in such a way as to be added after the border lines were cut.....I don't recall a "tower" lock as to having a cypher.....

 

[jpc]

Hi:

I will do it if I can without chipping the wood.
If I find numbers or proofs, what will this establish?

Thanks
jpc

 

[jpc]

Only markings I found is a '3' on the sear

 

[thewho66]

Also check on the sides of the lock plate for lines on the plate. I just picked up a Man st Arms magizine and they show a brown bess lock and markins to look for. Granted this is for a bess but it might help with were to look for other markings.

 

[JV Puleo]

The lock will have been made in one of the towns on the outskirts of Birmingham, England in an area known as "the Black Country". It was called that because of the thick layer of soot from forges and fires that blanketed everything. The "3" is probably an assemblers or lock filers mark. By the time that lock was made the trade was extremely specialized. Specialists made each part and other specialists assembled and adjusted them. I am reasonably certain that the "Tower" and crown on the lock are completely meaningless advertising hype...the British government was known for demanding quality so making a lock that looked as if it was made for the government was a way of satisfying the customer. In any case, if it was a government lock there would be government ownership and storekeepers marks on it. Because its associated with an American barrel in a stock that almost certainly originated in New England, the lock probably entered the country in a barrel with 499 or more like it. They were sold by the dozen to "gunmakers", hardware dealers etc...So, even if you could identify the lockmaker, which is very unlikely, it wouldn't tell you anything about the history of the gun in its current form.

 

[jpc]

Once again I thank you folks for your input and help with this identification.
After read everything again My Amateurish Eye see an original and unaltered musket. This makes me happy and it will be added to me collection.

Take care and I look forward to meeting again

jpc