Flintlock made in India

[1853enfield]

i am sure this has been discussed many times but still would like some information. I have been thinking about taking some of my $1200 government check and purchasing a blunderbuss. I have no idea why i want one but then dont really need a reason. I do know that the torch hole will need to be drilled, and it will be shot very seldom. what are the thoughts of the group. i do have a 12 ga double that was made in India and have never given me a problem. I have read conflicting reports and would like the opinion of the group. joe g. in Selah Wa.

 

[horsecavalryman]

Wah! recommend www.middlesexvillagetrading.com family owned and run in New Hampshire. Also a class 3 builder. Peter Plunkett warranties his locks and will proof at cost. He fired my Paget carbine replica. Blunderbuss are way cool to shoot and own. My custom military blunderbuss built by Yancey Von Yeast of MO,

 

[1853enfield]

that is a real treasure. i have a 40 caliber flintlock rifle and really think i need a blunderbuss. my only flint the 40 caliber was given to me by a friend a couple months before he passed away. i have cap locks but must admit the flint gun is just so cool. a patched ball a bit of powder and a lot of smoke. that is how you spell fun.

 

[fourbore]

I have recently contacted both Loyalist in Canada and Middlesex in NH. Both have zero guns or near zero and both told me the shipments from India are held up. As a general rule Loyalist will have some guns in stock (except now due to india and covid19) . Middlesex will never maintain a stock. What that means is some kind of deposit and you go on a wait list. The wait list is online with your name and position.

Middlesex is a guy running a business. It is not a family. I call the house several times and spoke to a very nice lady. Really a sweetheart of a lady. At some point I was directed to contact her husband on a new product. He does not speak, hearing issue, he writes. He wrote me the riot act about contacting his family regarding his business. Under no circumstances is anyone to call his home and disturb his family! Also refuse to discuss anything new in the works. He seems like an ok guy, but; a little rough around the edges and much sarcastic about certain pain in the neck customers. If you have a thin skin, go elsewhere. If you can accept his terms then all should be fine. I was directed to read the FAQ. Read it. It is funny if you dont take it personal. As a customer you better be able to read!!

There are some Italian and Spanish blunderbuss and kits. That is guns you can actually buy as opposed to getting on a list. I assume with steel that can be made hard all way through. As far as I know, much of the Indian steel is only surface hard. I do have an Model 1816 a real one, not a repro. It shoot sparks all day long. The old guns were a lot better than we give credit.

 

[fourbore]

In case you dont know, all the Indian guns come in partially completed. The steel parts need rework, tune up and hardening. They arrive non firing for import/export reasons. No touch hole, etc. The flintlocks are expectd to be returned to Middlesex for re-case hardening after so many firings. I dont think other sellers are so up front on this. Like I said, you have to read every line of the Freg Asked Questions. There is no other explanation it is all listed as an answer to a questions in the FAQ section of the website. Wierd. There is no order policy or shipping policy. It is a FAQ. You think? On the plus side, you can track the daily updated progress on your order. Loyalist you call and talk, Middlesex you open the speadsheet and read the status.

 

[jdw276]

I have recently contacted both Loyalist in Canada and Middlesex in NH. Both have zero guns or near zero and both told me the shipments from India are held up. As a general rule Loyalist will have some guns in stock (except now due to india and covid19) . Middlesex will never maintain a stock. What that means is some kind of deposit and you go on a wait list. The wait list is online with your name and position.

Middlesex is a guy running a business. It is not a family. I call the house several times and spoke to a very nice lady. Really a sweetheart of a lady. At some point I was directed to contact her husband on a new product. He does not speak, hearing issue, he writes. He wrote me the riot act about contacting his family regarding his business. Under no circumstances is anyone to call his home and disturb his family! Also refuse to discuss anything new in the works. He seems like an ok guy, but; a little rough around the edges and much sarcastic about certain pain in the neck customers. If you have a thin skin, go elsewhere. If you can accept his terms then all should be fine. I was directed to read the FAQ. Read it. It is funny if you dont take it personal. As a customer you better be able to read!!

There are some Italian and Spanish blunderbuss and kits. That is guns you can actually buy as opposed to getting on a list. I assume with steel that can be made hard all way through. As far as I know, much of the Indian steel is only surface hard. I do have an Model 1816 a real one, not a repro. It shoot sparks all day long. The old guns were a lot better than we give credit.

How about veteran arms? Same type of company, importer. Supplies a lot of arms to movie production companies.

 

[horsecavalryman]

Sitting Fox offers nice 4ga. kit guns but you asked about Indian reliability and suppliers. traded my bll to Doc White.

 

[Poguetx]

I have the doglock blunderbus with a steel barrel from Middlesex. Vent came drilled. The lock sparks very well, but the trigger pull is 20 pound! I'm sure I could lighten it up a little by polishing, but since it's more of a 4th of July toy, I haven't bothered. I also have one of their matchlocks and wheellocks, and have shot both. There's a good reason wheellocks died out quickly once flintlocks came around!

 

[1853enfield]

thanks to all those who replied not sure if i will buy one the only thing that holds me back is the money but i really want one. actually i think i need one you never know when it will be needed to clear the decks.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I've purchased from Middlesex, but never again. The guy runs a lock scam, contending he spends all his waking hours refurbing locks under warranty for reenactors. I sent my lock in because the sear was unannealed soft metal and bent enough to impede function after only a few shots fired. Turnaround was a couple of months & the cheating ba$tard just straightened it & sent it back - it was still soft. I was finally able to anneal it myself. He ignored all my further attempts to contact him to make his work right. Avoid this guy at all costs.
OTOH, Loylaist is very easy to contact and very helpful THEY sell a better quality product.

 

[Grenadier1758]

... it was still soft. I was finally able to anneal it myself.

Annealing will soften the iron or steel. I am sure you meant hardened and tempered the sear.

 

[Zonie]

Annealing will soften the iron or steel. I am sure you meant hardened and tempered the sear.

That's what I was about to say.

If AZbpBurner asked for the sear to be annealed then he got exactly what he asked for.
On the other hand, if he didn't use the word, "anneal" and told Middlesex the sear was too soft and it needed fixing, Middlesex should have tested it, found that it was too soft and hardened it. Although the "arm" on a sear is often left slightly hardened, the tip of the sear should be fully hardened and tempered in order to do its job.

 

[rickystl]

Today, while not really practical for everyday shooting, they rate very high on the fun to shoot scale. Especially with the right load of 00 shot. Mostly a 7-yard gun with no accuracy past about 15-yards with shot. Definitely a short range weapon for which it was intended. But, as said, they are a hoot to shoot. LOL

It would seem (outside a total custom gun) that Sitting Fox kit might be the best option for shooting.
The India made blunderbuss do occasionally show up on Gunbroker. But tend to sell quickly.
What you might want to do is post a "Wanted" ad in the Firearms section of the Classifieds here on the Forum. You never know what might turn up. It seems the three primary sellers of the Indian made blunderbuss have sold quite a number of them. So there should be more than a few out there.

Rick

 

[Boatncamp]

If you are looking for a new gun, needing to save money and therefore looking to the India made guns, I would suggest Loyalist Arms or Veterans Arms. Middlesex' waiting list appears to run 6 to 12 months if he has the gun in stock at the time of the order. In stock with him does not mean there ready to ship. If you have some money to spend, then the Sitting Fox kit looks very nice. There is cheap option, but not in flintlock. Traditions sells a kit for a percussion blunderbuss that in its basic shape looks a little cartoonish, but it is a working black powder blunderbuss. I have often wondered if it could be converted to flintlock by ordering the correct replacement lock from Traditions and installing a vent liner where the drum is. Muzzle-loaders.com says they are in stock for $350.
What are you looking to do with the gun? I too was bite by the bug and was able to pick up an older CVA brass barrel gun. The barrel at 16" is too short to be allowed to be used at reenactments. I believe that the those offered from India are also too short. That makes the Sitting Fox gun more attractive if that is something that interests you. You need to decide if you want brass or steel barrel.
My final suggestion is do what I did. Watch this form's gun listings, Gun Broker, Guns America and Gun Auctions. They do come up periodically.
Be prepared to part with abut $500 for a used one as they do not come up very often. And when you see one, buy it, don't wait.
They are a hoot to shoot!!!
Took mine out yesterday for the 4th and we let off a bunch of blank loads in it. Really fun at dusk / dark.
Good luck with your search

Woody

 

[horsecavalryman]

Just a visual for size of 4ga. steel Ed Rayl bll. Quarter laying on top of 4ga. over shot wad. I managed to trade the 4ga. Rayl. Bll. and Stowe Lock to Doc Gary White for a 6ga. Bronze bll. and French Lock and furniture. These parts were originally intended for this stock and will fit my "French" impression better. Note color of Manganese Bronze BB barrel vs. Brass hand mortar barrel by Ed Rayl below it

 

[AZbpBurner]

That's what I was about to say.

If AZbpBurner asked for the sear to be annealed then he got exactly what he asked for.
On the other hand, if he didn't use the word, "anneal" and told Middlesex the sear was too soft and it needed fixing, Middlesex should have tested it, found that it was too soft and hardened it. Although the "arm" on a sear is often left slightly hardened, the tip of the sear should be fully hardened and tempered in order to do its job.

OK, bad choice of words for this post. Let's not over complicate things. I sent the lock back with notation that the sear was soft & bending. The guy didn't do anything to it sent it back in the same unusable condition.

 

[1853enfield]

to answer questions asked i have wanted one since i was a teenager. The first one i saw was in Goldendale sitting in the window of a pawn shop.
Was deer hunting up on the gray back and dad decided we should stop off for coffee on our was as we left much earlier than needed. the blunderbuss was in the window store was closed so i never got to hold it. I just think it would be neat to own one. Money is always a problem as i would up on disability at age 45 not much time to build a retirement.. still not having to eat at the mission. I was given a 40 caliber flintlock 2 years ago and it is a hoot to shoot. currently i own a 1853 Enfield armi sport, Thompson center Hawken in 45 and a renegade with 54 and 50 caliber barrels and a 12 ga sxs made in india. i have been real happy with the shotgun mostly shot .690 round balls as i wanted to see if i could stop a charging lion. the answer is yes it should do a passable job. I got lucky and married the best woman who ever walked the planet 52 years ago and she has been supportive of my gun addiction. we made a deal i would stay out of bars and other women's beds and i could have firearms instead. made a great deal.

one more question is there any advantage of buying one with the dog lock or heck i dont know what it is called so i will just say regular flintlock.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Should you buy a dog lock? Is there any advantage to a dog lock?

The dog lock is a form of safety as the "dog" is a hook that captures the hammer to prevent it from inadvertently falling. when the hammer is pulled back, the dog disengages and the hammer will fall on the trigger pull. There is no advantage to a dog lock than the half **** notch. I believe Sweden required dog locks on their muskets as it was a highly visible indication that the musket was at half ****. Advantage, not really for most musket shooters.

As to whether you should buy one? That's not for me to say. I wouldn't buy one as I don't feel I have the need for that highly visible safety feature.

 

[Alexander Efremenko]

There is a blunderbuss for sale in the classifieds on this forum..

 

[1853enfield]

wow i saw there was one for sale hare and go so excited until i was the price.. i am sure it is worth asking price but i cant afford it. someone is going to get a real nice addition