Fred_Dwyer
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2011
- Messages
- 245
- Reaction score
- 0
Some do some don't and that isn't the gun we were talking about anyway.
screwed barrels
screwed barrels
Flintlock - Miroku Japan
- Thread starter Blackpowdersmoke
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
Blackpowdersmoke
40 Cal.
Fred_D said:
Thanks Fred,
BPS
Fred_Dwyer
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2011
- Messages
- 245
- Reaction score
- 0
Back to bending the cock. You need to more like stretch it rather than just bend it. Just bending it back will mess up the 60 degrees that it should have where the flint meets the frizzen. It will spark even less and eat up flints since they'll be smashing into the frizzen closer to 90 degrees.
So really to keep the geometry correct and gain the height; you want to change the shorter "s" into a taller "S", while moving the jaws rearward slightly to maintain distance from the frizzen.
Wait till you get a real flint, hopefully it will the perfect size/length then assess the spark and geometry. Then ponder the bending/stretching.
So really to keep the geometry correct and gain the height; you want to change the shorter "s" into a taller "S", while moving the jaws rearward slightly to maintain distance from the frizzen.
Wait till you get a real flint, hopefully it will the perfect size/length then assess the spark and geometry. Then ponder the bending/stretching.
Blackpowdersmoke
40 Cal.
Fred,Fred_D said:
I believe that's what we're going to do. I have taken a closer look and it appears as though the flint is striking the frizzen OK, but it's becoming more apparent that the frizzen is actually too soft. We came up with a good flint of an appropriate size and it sparks well just a few times and then the flint "loads up" with the softer steel. Do a quick knap, and the same thing happens. I am going to have the frizzen RC tested and then re-hardened. May look into having more spring tension put on the mainspring if the frizzen hardening doesn't help, but I believe the problem is with the frizzen. Thanks for your help, :thumbsup:
BPS
One thing that I have been told by a couple of old time competitive flintlock shooters, that helps prevent the flint from loading up quite so much is to use lead instead of leather to hold the flint. May want to give that a try till you get the frizzen tested. I am going to try it on mine to see if I can tell any difference.
I built one of those Ultra-Highs back in the 70's. The lock actually sparked pretty well but be aware that it doesn't have a proper breechplug. The breech/tang is welded on the end of the barrel. Mine had an alarmingly thin breech wall.
Not to pick on Dean2 but:
ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!! NOT THE "LEAD vs LEATHER flint wrap issue again?
For folks wanting to see one of dozens of topics about this, follow this link.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...tid/260300/post/1032498/fromsearch/1/#1032498
ARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!! NOT THE "LEAD vs LEATHER flint wrap issue again?
For folks wanting to see one of dozens of topics about this, follow this link.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...tid/260300/post/1032498/fromsearch/1/#1032498
Last edited by a moderator:
- Joined
- May 9, 2005
- Messages
- 1,548
- Reaction score
- 100
fiddler said:
That's the weird thing about these Ultra-Hi guns. The build techniques and quality were all over the place... None really good, mind you, but ranging from pipe bomb to barely adequate. I have one of the light dragoon/pirate pistols they sold back in the 70s (I believe my parents got me the kit from Dixie), and I shot it quite a bit as a kid with BBs as a shot load. When I heard about welded breechplugs, I pulled my barrel, and it appears my breechplug is threaded, but then the tang was welded on. The walls of my round barrel look perfectly adequate. My lock has always sparked reliably with almost any chunk of flint or agate in it. Guess I just got lucky.
Your results may vary (and more than likely do)! Miroku may have outsourced manufacture to different shops with different standards; that's the best explanation I can guess from the wide variations I've seen and heard of.
Blackpowdersmoke
40 Cal.
I recently took the frizzen to a friend who is still working at a shop where I used to work. He is going to have it re-hardened to a case depth of .035 to .040 and try to bring it up to 58-62 RC.
BPS
BPS
OK I will pi$$ away an hour documenting the obvious.gizamo said:
The photo below is from a report on a "gun" identical to the one pictured above by Turk.
I guess you would have to have been around MLing long enough to read the magazine article.
I have it here someplace in an old Buckskin Report, it was in the limited index I have. April 1976 pg 8.
The breech plug is screwed in then welded so it can't be removed (the milled the barrel away to see if it was threaded or just welded as originally suspected, barrel is held to the stock with screws threaded in the arc welded to the barrel nuts (with internal bore damage). The barrel is TWO pieces that SCREW together. These things were sold as the "Minuteman Flintlock" by Ultra-hi, EMF sold them in the 70s others as well. Sometimes its called a "brown bess".
Yeah they made 2 piece barrels. Some reports stated the pieces did not align and would trap patches on a jag.
Trust me I don't have to make the stuff up.
There are 2 letters by Don Lamotte a ML gunsmith of the time concerning an Ulta-hi percussion (along with other frightening "issues" the nipple was drilled straight through with a 1/8" hole. (Feb 76 Buckskin Report)
Then he has a letter in the August 76 issue where he refers to the manual that comes with them as "Mad Magazine for Muzzleloaders" and details the instructions.
Reports by others in newspapers and other publications resulted in "The Buckskin Report" acquiring one for dissection resulting the the info contained in the article partly reproduced here.
I bet if the "gun" under discussion here is looked at it will be found to be identical to the one in the article.
Yeah I can usually back up everything I write.
I post something is the attempt to avoid someone blowing their head off and rather than look into it someone who does not even own the thing thinks I am making things up.
Does anyone wonder why nobody posts anything of any import on the WWW? Its populated with people who always know more than anyone else even if they just arrived home from the local pawn shop with their first muzzleloader.
So someone posts something based on 40+ years experience in the field and people hint that he is making things up.
IMO they are not safe to shoot. I would get the creeps just seeing one on the table at a gun show...
Dan
paulvallandigham
Passed On
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 17,537
- Reaction score
- 91
Dan: Thank you for all that information. Some of us appreciate your knowledge.
ONLY, NEXT time, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel about this POS! :barf: :rotf: :wink: :grin: :blah: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hatsoff:
ONLY, NEXT time, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel about this POS! :barf: :rotf: :wink: :grin: :blah: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hatsoff:
Dan
It is the curse of the Internet. Used to be when you were talking to some pimple faced 17 year old you could see his face, and you know they were generally full of youthful stupidity. Same was true for newb wannabees. Face to face they were pretty easy to pick out. The Internet makes everyone an equal expert - ya right, only in their own minds.
Keep posting the truth, there are enough people that can still tell the difference, and care about it being right.
It is the curse of the Internet. Used to be when you were talking to some pimple faced 17 year old you could see his face, and you know they were generally full of youthful stupidity. Same was true for newb wannabees. Face to face they were pretty easy to pick out. The Internet makes everyone an equal expert - ya right, only in their own minds.
Keep posting the truth, there are enough people that can still tell the difference, and care about it being right.
The chief engineer at Miroku A.E.Newman says, "all our guns are safe to shoot."
vern faulkner
54 Cal.
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2009
- Messages
- 1,548
- Reaction score
- 5
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Laughed so hard that I felt the tears running down my leg.
Vern
Vern
Good link. Read it and a few more like it. Didn't know this was such contentious topic. All I can say is going to try both and different thicknesses of leather myself and see if I can tell any difference. I did learn however that I am going to grind the little humps off my flints, that will definitley make them sit still in the lock a bunch better. Thanks for the info.
Blackpowdersmoke
40 Cal.
To PaulV and Dan Pharris,paulvallandigham said:
Did either of you take any time to read any of the posts I made concerning the original thread I started? You two have taken this from someone asking for a a little advice or expertise and *******ized it into some kind of mockery that isn't worth reading. You are both obviously experts because "you have been muzzleloading for blah, blah years" but neither one of you have been one bit of help through this whole thread.
PaulV, YOU... (and I'm really surprised at this) have not stuck your nose in through this whole discussion other than to stand behind Dan Phariss like the two of you are the only ones THAT KNOW ANYTHING!!! How many times do I have to state, mention, imply, shout, scream, or whatever that the gun that capt turk posted pictures of is absolutely nothing like the one I started this thread about!!! I may not know everything, and I'm certain that you both know more than I, even though I've been shooting and hunting with muzzleloading rifles for 38+ years but apparently, because I'm not a custom rifle builder or don't have thousands of dollars tied up in custom built muzzleloaders, I'm not worthy of fair treatment. I started this thread for a little information on a firearm imported through Ultra-Hi and manufactured by Miroku. Instead of reading my post and maybe asking a question or two, you were quick to condemn.
Maybe that comes from the "holier than thou" attitude you both seem to carry. I have seen the "pipe bomb" muzzleloaders imported as wall hangers and, (although I'm not worthy) I do know enough to tell someone when I feel that their safety may be endangered and that the gun is not safe. The gun I started this thread over has a one piece octagon barrel with a two-piece stock. It is identical to some of the earlier CVA imports, but apparently neither of you took the time to read that. I will end my rant now, and if the moderator wants to boot me for stating my honest opinions, so be it. As a matter of fact, after all of this, he may not have to. I may just bid adieu to this site forever amen.
BPS
Blackpowdersmoke said:
I could ask how many Ultra-Hi MLs you have so much as read about but I think I know the answer. At least I know the history.
You should have read my initial post as well. MY discussion was concerning the ones I knew about and not all of these were the 2 piece barrel models.
The percussion model examined by Don Lamotte, for example, was probably identical to yours with the exception of the ignition type.
Someone wanted documentation concerning the 2 piece barrel models so I provided it
I posted what I did as a public service in the interest of SAFETY.
Accidents are bad for the sport and hazardous to the health of the shooter and bystanders.
CVA, btw, made/sold the "CVA Mtn Rifle". A better gun than the TC Hawken, they also sold some imports I would not care to be around when fired so telling me it looks like some of the cheap CVA stuff does not raise its stock in my mind.
Dan
Blackpowdersmoke
40 Cal.
Like anyone here could give a crap after all of the intervention, but the frizzen came back at 61RC and it sparks very well now.Blackpowdersmoke said:
BPS
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
-
FOR SALE Near Excellent Pedersoli Brown Bess
- Latest: Smokey Plainsman
-
-
-
FOR SALE Starr DA revolver by Navy Arms .44 NIB
- Latest: Smokey Plainsman