Flintlock musket safety?

[brownbess67]

Hello, (sorry my english)
I like to load my brown bess at "drill way", so I ALWAYS use a leather frizzen cover (or hammer stall)inmediatly after of primed the pan, and then load the barrel. I dont want to blow up my hand. Leather covers are historically corrects, but they were used by centinels, not in open fire. Theres must be a limit to reenactment and segurity is first. Or you want to eat rotten meat and dirty water javascript:void(0)like sometimes napoleonics soldiers must do? :barf:

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks all.

So in order to load safely from cartridges, I would just slip the leather stall on the frizzen after closing it?

 

[tenngun]

Your English is poetic to read, I enjoyed your post :thumbsup:

 

[Artificer]

Thanks all.

So in order to load safely from cartridges, I would just slip the leather stall on the frizzen after closing it?

The safest way to load with cartridges is NOT prime the pan, even with the leather stall in place, before loading the barrel. In this method, you dump all the powder and ball down the barrel first. Then prime the pan from a horn or flask. Then if you are using a leather stall, pull it off when the pan is primed and while the barrel is pointing safely downrange.

IF your leather stall is a good snug fit and won't easily fall/slide off the frizzen, then it is a bit safer to prime the pan and load the barrel compared to not having a leather stall. However, you have to choose a frizzen cover that fits snug or make it so yourself, for any added safety factor. IMO, a Frizzen cover should not be considered entirely safe, though, because things can go wrong.

I have fired thousands of blanks from Flintlock Muskets and the Frizzen Stall came off before loading and firing - without a safety problem. However, I DO NOT load a live round by priming the pan first, even though I make my Frizzen Covers to fit properly. I just don't see any reason to risk limb or life today, to load as much like they did in the 18th/19th military.

I don't use the Frizzen Cover when live firing on the target range, as I don't prime the pan first when loading. I DO use the Frizzen Cover when hunting, at least until I quit moving and then take it off. When I use the Frizzen Cover when hunting - I load the barrel first and then with the Frizzen Cover on, I prime the pan and close the cover.

Gus

 

[Cruzatte]

I know that back in the day, the command was "Prime and Load" in that order. But it made me cringe every time. I wouldn't do it, unless I was doing a demonstration at an 18th century military event.

I'd prefer to load the entire contents of the paper cartridge first, then once stationed on the firing line, prime and fire.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Leather stalls are not historically correct!

"XIII. On Service, leather Hammer-stalls are undoubtedly an advantage to a Battlion [of infantry], when loaded, and resting on their Arms, as accidents may be prevented, by having them fixed upon the hammers [frizzens] of the Firelocks;...,

Cuthbertson, System, for The Complete Interior Management and Oeconomy of a Battalion of Infantry. P. 93
1776

As for the thread question, there is no harm in carrying a horn to prime after loading. One still needs to grasp the rammer to ram the cartridge or to remove it from the barrel, and even if the rammer is flexed so as not to place the hand directly over the muzzle, an accidental discharge would launch the steel rammer through the loader's hand/fingers if it happened when the rammer was grasped.

REGARDLESS of being in the position of cast about or not.

LD

 

[Grenadier1758]

My reenacting unit participates in two types of events. In the first, historical demonstration, we use only blank loads and follow the 18th century manual of arms. We prime first. Then powder is poured from the prepared cartridge.

We also participate in woods walks where we fire live rounds. While walking, the gun is loaded but not primed. Priming is done just prior to firing a live round. We have one or two blank cartridges or a small horn that we use for priming. We also use a hammer stall when carrying our muskets either loaded or not unless we are on the firing line. In the situations where we fire more than one round at a station, we load the powder charge, then the ball and prime just prior to firing. If we stop firing as a station, then the priming is dumped and hammer stalls are placed on the frizzens before we move on.

While we strive for historic correctness in our demonstrations, we feel that the concerns for safe handling of our firearms comes first.

So Earl, you should get a flintlock musket and use it safely. Use safe firing practices and prime last. Don't allow "historic" procedures overshadow safe shooting practice.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Don't allow "historic" procedures to overshadow safe shooting practice.

There it is!..... :thumbsup:

Musket drill was developed for fighting efficiency, to shoot the enemy before they shot you. Proper procedure becomes irrelevant when one is removed from the proper context.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Hello all!

So if someone wanted to get a repro or original military flintlock musket, and make authentic paper cartridges for it, AND wanted to load the "original" way, how safe would that be?

Of course, when loading the military flintlock the user puts the gun on half cock and uses some of the powder from the cartridge to prime the pan. Then, he dumps the rest of the powder and stuff the ball and paper down the bore, ramming it home with the ramrod.

While all of this is happening, the gun is at half cock and the pan is full of powder!!

Keep in mind that only Army regulars would have necessarily loaded in such fashion.
Many militia carried powder horns...

 

[tenngun]

Many lines for a reinactment you can't use a ramrod, we have modren steel barrels, and fire proof tenting. Maybe you can have an 18th cent meal but it will be made with inspected safe food, milk or beer won't be served from a wooden bucket.
A primed blank that goes off might just burn finger. In a competition one could get a bad injury, in the woods alone it could be a fatal accident.
I want to be hc, but I purefy my water, and I don't think I would eat salt pork from a two year old cask.

 

[brownbess67]

The way I always do is very simple:
1) (with lock in half cock)bite the cartridge and prime from it
2) close the frizzen
3) cover ALL the frizzen with the leather stall (sometimes need to keep the paper cartridge on my teeth to use my right hand)
4) load the main charge in the barrel
5) remove the leather stall.
6) Full cock position and you are ready to fire.
My leather stall is slightly adjusted to the frizzen, I think this is safer.

 

[brownbess67]

LOL Tenngun, I know my english is terrible need to practice 'cause these forum are the best !

 

[JohnN]

Hammerstalls are also mentioned in the French Marine drill from 1704.

 

[boxofrocks]

I recall this discussion from many years ago when I met up with an F&I group, and sent me to my library for clarification. A reprint from Sullivan Press, 1995, entitled "Militia Man...Circa 1740". The woodcuts and instructions clearly instruct the soldier to prime first using a priming flask before ever touching his cartridge box. It seemed insane at the time, and still does. If you are cannon fodder, who cares?

 

[Grumpa]

Just thinking out loud...priming the pan is a small move in the loading procedure. If a soldier loaded the powder and ball first, he might, in the heat of battle, shoulder his musket and "fire" into the charging enemy, only to be reminded by the bayonet, that he had forgotten to prime. :shocked2:

If the priming was always done first, the hasty reload would still be effective.

I haven't encountered any bayonet charges at the range I use...bottom line, load for SAFETY. The prosthetic that will be used to replace your mangled hand will be even less HC/PC than your priming out of PC order.

 

[coloradoclyde]

He might also not notice that the gun did not go off and reload....stacking charge upon charge...
Indeed from a military perspective it was likely more efficient...

 

[Gene L]

Since it was a long-term military method of loading a musket, I wonder if there were a lot of unintentional discharges. I wouldn't think so.

Having never owned a flintlock (but have one ordered) I wonder if the flint striking the frizzen at half cock would generate enough force to cause sparks. You flinter people would know.

Not that I think pre-priming is a good idea. I'm just not sure it was a horrible idea.

 

[tenngun]

Yes it can, not 100 or even 50% of the time, but can happen. It's the origin of ' going off half cocked'.

 

[nwtradegun]

all these videos on facebook showing priming first, THEY HAVE A DEATH WISH. they don't show using a frizzen stale. I hope their life insurance is paid up.

 

[JohnN]

I think we can all agree that hamerstalls were used but may not have been universally issued. Also, loading in a battle was done as fast as possible which meant priming first. Safety was secondary. In a modern non life threatening situation safety is first and speed second. If I was being chased by a bear and had a cartridge I would prime first and then load. If I was at the range or hunting I would load first and then prime. Every range I have been to said all priming is done after loading on the firing line even if using a cartridge.