Flintlock Pistols - "Pistol Grip Designs" ???

[roundball]

In exploring different flintlock pistols, the design of the pistol grip area basically seems to fall into one of two shapes...either a somewhat normal curved "pistol grip", or, a longer, almost "straight grip" area.

Examples like the Kentucky pistol with it's severely curved grip, and the british dragoon with it's straight shape like the wrist area of some ML rifles.

My question to owners / shooters of both types:

Is the dragoon shape simply a takeoff of the wrist area shape of some rifles, and the curved shape came later for other reasons?

Are there pros & cons of the two shapes when actually shooting them?

 

[robinghewitt]

I think it's mostly by date, they started off practically straight and became progressively bent :m2c:

 

[arilar]

Roundball: The "younger" curved style is more preferd among target-shooters. I have used replikas of Kentucky, Le Page(Pedersoli) and Manton (Hege). All of them fun to use and good shooters. Unfortunalety the most expensive Hege-Manton best performer and highest quality. Today none of them in my possession though :cry:, but I have traded in other sweeties instead ::.
The "straight" style somewhat harder for me to shoot :imo:. I have been shooting mostly original pistols converted to percussion. Lots of fun! Do you have a particular model in mind?
ARILAR :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

Good quality, Flintlock, name brand to ensure parts & service, large grip & LOP to fit big hands... I'm not married to a caliber, but since I can't use BP pistols to hunt with, it'll just be for range use so there's really no need for anything larger than a .45cal.

Just looking at photos of Kentucky style pistol grip designs, I'm certain they're too small...for example, my S&W revolvers are the large 'N' frame size and I could still use a slightly bigger grip & LOP on them.

A design like that of a British Dragoon, while less conventional looking, seems as though it might provide better hand fit & LOP...just don't know if they can be held and fired with consistent accuracy with that design

 

[Doc Arroyo]

The "Dragoon" or "Sea Service" type pistols had grip angles that evolved from the grip angle of a cutlass or hanger type sword. Mostly they were smoothbore, with little or no sights, so accuracy was a relative term. It is somewhat tough to use this grip angle and align sights with a modern stance. Period artwork typically shows a stance that had a bend in the elbow and a limp wrist to align the sights with the eye. It is actually very comfortable to shoot that style of stance, but it might get you more than a little ribbing from your shooting companions! :winking:

The grip angle seems to have increased with the accuracy of the pistol, making for a more positive grip and ease of aligning the sights.

For a pistol for a competitive game, I choose a more "modern" grip. I use a 1835 to 1845 Hawken/Derringer reproduction with the rounded and checkered grip, that holds in the hand with nearly the same grip angle as a Colt 1911 pistol. For fun and some reinactments, I am building a 20 ga draggon pistol with a 1750's style straight grip and no sights!

 

I actually prefer this type as being comfortable and an accurate shooting design. It is a very good pointing pistol as well, lining up quickly.
:

 

[roundball]

Uhmmmmm...maybe I could make a 'dragoon style' pistol out of a spare TC Hawken flintlock...cut the stock, cut the barrel, relocate the rear sight, and install a front sight.
::

 

[WRussell]

I think as far as pros and cons go - The straighter the stock, the better your grip has to be, that is, the tighter you have to hold it, to get consistent accuracy. A steep angled stock, like modern pistols, tends to reduce the force trying to make the stock slip through your hand. Since the slipping is not as consistent as the movement of your hand and arm with the recoil, accuracy suffers.

You say you have big hands - that's a definite plus in pistol shooting, because of the increased mass to resist recoil and a stronger grip on the stock. But if you're trying for accuracy, it won't hurt to use an angled stock with a surface that resists slipping, like checkering.

- Bill

 

[Deadeye]

Robins right they were straight and gradually bent over time. For accuracy the saw handled type with the hand stop at the top is the best (stops the hand from slipping) but not allowed in some competitions. Checkering helps on the curved designs. I use the one pictured below but it required checkering before I could hold it without it slipping up in my hand. The straighter the grip the more you have to bend your wrist to align the sights. If you close your hand without bending your wrist and look at the palm side of your hand you will see the best and most comfortable angle for the grip. You may also notice that this is the exact angle of the Colt 1911 auto grip which is why it points so well.

 

[robinghewitt]

Here's a straighter one, I bought it on a gun auction because:-

a:nobody seemed to want it
b:it was cheap
c:the lock bolts don't penetrate the front of the plate.

Probably Eastern Mediterranean and quite old. No real value to it, but fun ::

 

[Deadeye]

Neat pistol, smoothbore? Does it fire?
I think your right on the location.

 

[Musketeer]

Squire Robin, :master: :master: :master: :master: :master: :thumbsup: That is a sweet piece! :shocking: :thumbsup:

What caliber and barrel length is it?

 

[robinghewitt]

That is a sweet piece! :shocking: :thumbsup:
What caliber and barrel length is it?

No, it is junk I promise you ::

It shows all the signs of being mass produced to order. The lock plate, butt cap and barrel are etched rather than engraved, the wood carving was done by a 10 year old with a pen knife, the butt cap was filled with plaster and then nailed on etc.

And yet it isn't modern tourist tat because it has been repaired to keep it going, it has screws rather than rivets and, surprisingly, a detatchable pan ::

5/8" by 14

 

[Musketeer]

No, it is junk I promise you

People always say, "Pictures don't do it justice." I guess in this case, pictures do that gun more justice than it deserves! :shocking: I have all my stocks made by 10 year old kids with pen knives (cheap labor)! :crackup: :thumbsup:

Back to the subject: I've only shot pistols (so far) with the more modern "pistol" grip design (Kentucky & plains style) so I can't make a camparison right at the moment with the straighter style grip. However, I have a Dragoon pistol on the way from MVTC, so I'll let you know how it feels/shoots. :thumbsup:

 

[robinghewitt]

The straighter stock is closer to aiming a sword thrust and gives a swordsman a lot more control of the muzzle. That's why swords don't have bent grips like a 1911, the pointy end would be all over the place.

I think I'd better put it back on the shelf and hope Levantine eventually comes in to fashion ::

 

[roundball]

For accuracy the saw handled type with the hand stop at the top is the best (stops the hand from slipping) but not allowed in some competitions.

Like TC's Patriot pistol...terrific looking pistol, stock design has the hand stop, looks like it would be a good fit...unfortunately they only made them in percussion, are no longer being manufactured, and used ones are way too expensive for me to then try to have one converted to flint

 

[Deadeye]

I found one at a gun show about 2 yrs ago, new in the box
for $240 in .36 cal. but for some reason it didn't shoot well so I rebarreled it to .45 and it shoots great. It's been my match gun ever since. I've won every match I've shot with it. I also checkered the grip which made it even better. It's still percussion as I have a good flinter.