Flintlock Rifle Flash Hole Placement

[Ruffedgrouse]

You say the pans are somewhat shallow....so, grind the dang things deeper with a dremel and be done with it.

Otherwise I concur with what's been said above.

Do you remove the pan completely from the Lock and Frizzen, when you grind out with a Dremel Tool?

 

[Ruffedgrouse]

This is a good example of overthinking the geometry of a budget gun. I know that is a weird statement for a $600.00 dollar gun. But that is the way of things. As many have said take em out and shoot them. If they shoot good enjoy. Follow the old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

Thank you for your response.

 

[Ruffedgrouse]

Can you post pictures of the lock so we can see the flash hole area

Did you receive the pictures?

 

[hanshi]

The vent is still in a good position and should cause no trouble at all.

 

[Ruffedgrouse]

I have a Lyman left hand flint-lock and one of the things I observed after using it for several years was the flash hole was below a line that would be at the top of the pan. As the Flint and hammer assembly and pan are not fastened to the barrel, but to the side of the stock, I was able to raise the back of the barrel by raising the Tang that the barrel locks into, being it's a Hawkins design, with nothing more than a Shim, and it made the flash just above a line that would be at the top of the pan instead of being below that line. It did seem to help was hang Fires and was a simple thing to do.
Squint

So, how did you shim the barrel. Did you put a washer under the Tang? If so, how high does the tang protrude out of the stock? Also, did you put anything under the barrel itself? What did you use, a thin strip of leather, lead, wood putty, etc.?

 

[Ruffedgrouse]

Where are you located? Maybe we could get together and shoot.

South East Wisconsin - New Berlin.

 

[Dartwick]

This thread is ridiculous. So ridiculous that I wonder if its real.

It starts with an imaginary problem about touch hole placement. That he supposedly has been trying to get the manufacturer to fix for him and is calling the CEO of traditions...
Even though he has never tried to shoot the gun.

Thats weird.

Then other posters start suggesting he modify this gun with grinders and or Dremel tools - on this gun that has never been shot.

Ya that makes sense.

And now hes asking for more info on how to do these mods.


Everything wrong about internet forums.

 

[Ruffedgrouse]

This thread is ridiculous. So ridiculous that I wonder if its real.

It starts with an imaginary problem about touch hole placement. That he supposedly has been trying to get the manufacturer to fix for him and is calling the CEO of traditions...
Even though he has never tried to shoot the gun.

Thats weird.

Then other posters start suggesting he modify this gun with grinders and or Dremel tools - on this gun that has never been shot.

Ya that makes sense.

And now hes asking for more info on how to do these mods.


Everything wrong about internet forums.

Thank you for your kindness and understanding...

 

[Ruffedgrouse]

Thank you for your kindness and understanding...

Secondly, it is a simple matter of physics that the flash hole should be sitting higher in the pan, not at the bottom where it will be clogged/blocked by powder.

A very simple fix. Align the flash hole correctly, when manufacturing and selling the gun to the marketplace to reduce any issues.

Thanks again.

 

[Ruffedgrouse]

Easiest thing to do if you have a Dremel Tool or equivalent. Use a grinder bit and grind the pan a little deeper.
I had to deepen the pan for this build and shift it forward. Does the job!

Did you remove the pan & frizzen from the lock before grinding? If so, is it difficult to take apart and put back together?

 

[M. De Land]

This thread is ridiculous. So ridiculous that I wonder if its real.

It starts with an imaginary problem about touch hole placement. That he supposedly has been trying to get the manufacturer to fix for him and is calling the CEO of traditions...
Even though he has never tried to shoot the gun.

Thats weird.

Then other posters start suggesting he modify this gun with grinders and or Dremel tools - on this gun that has never been shot.

Ya that makes sense.

And now hes asking for more info on how to do these mods.


Everything wrong about internet forums.

I'd say your assumption that Traditions flash hole positioning is an "imaginary" problem that produces inferior ignition carries no more weight than those who believe it to be inferior.
I do agree the rifle should be shot and tested before any alterations are made and if the ignition speed and consistency suits the owner then all is well.
That doesn't mean it will match the reliability ,speed and consistency that others experience in their guns.

 

[morehops52]

First, let me say that I'm sorry that anyone should have to deal with your concerns from a customer service dept that obviously has little regard for their customers or product. Possibly that's one of the reasons that many folks on here don't rank Traditions as a better quality arm. You've already gotten many solutions to your perceived problem so I would go with their solutions in order to keep your wife's gift. If it weren't for that I would return them just for their poor attitude. Once you get into flintlock mode you may look to get a better quality used flintlock down the road. Whatever you do don't look to replace parts to make a Traditions better. You can put a better clutch in a Yugo but it's still a Yugo.

 

[Ruffedgrouse]

First, let me say that I'm sorry that anyone should have to deal with your concerns from a customer service dept that obviously has little regard for their customers or product. Possibly that's one of the reasons that many folks on here don't rank Traditions as a better quality arm. You've already gotten many solutions to your perceived problem so I would go with their solutions in order to keep your wife's gift. If it weren't for that I would return them just for their poor attitude. Once you get into flintlock mode you may look to get a better quality used flintlock down the road. Whatever you do don't look to replace parts to make a Traditions better. You can put a better clutch in a Yugo but it's still a Yugo.

Thank you for your response. The poor customer service is why I created this post.

I will try to shoot these guns but I have thoughts of returning 1. I just cant decide which one to return, the Hawken or Deluxe Kentucky Rifle.

 

[The Appalachian]

You'll probably run into "all sales are final". That's usually how it works with guns. They'll take it back for warranty repair/replacement if a warranty still exists, but I'm betting heavy odds they won't refund anything.

Best advice I can suggest is call them, ask for their protocol to return the rifles for warranty, then do that.

If they repair/replace then you're good to go.

If they do nothing and return the rifles to you then you know the warranty ain't jack so go ahead and modify the pans, or unload them at the pawn shop.

And regarding your question above. If you grind the pans deeper you don't absolutely need to remove the frizzen. If you want to it requires a spring vise to take the spring off and a screw driver to remove the pivot screw.

The pan itself is cast into the lock plate, so it doesn't "remove". Take the lock out of the stock and everything should be self-explanatory. If it's not then it's frankly over your head and you should consult a reputable gunsmith.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Don’t over fill the pan with powder and it should be fine. Also, putting the pan powder away from the touch hole may help. You are more likely to have problems with the small antichamber in the breech getting powder back to the touch hole than the holes actual position and that is a basic design flaw of Traditions. I typically slap the side of the stock after loading my Shenandoah after loading to help alleviate that problem. Since I’ve learned its quirks it is quite reliable.

 

[longcruise]

If they do nothing and return the rifles to you then you know the warranty ain't jack so go ahead and modify the pans, or unload them at the pawn shop.

Given The disagreement in this topic it's clear that there's room for varied opinions on their prospective functionality. Opinions seem to range from non functional to mere aesthetics. Given that it's likely that Traditions probably has a view on it which may or may not be self serving it might be helpful to shoot them.

 

[Dartwick]

lol - this guy still hasnt tried to shoot the gun

 

[longcruise]

No, and it it needs to be shot to truly evaluate it. I posted this before and I'll do it again. Whatever anybody thinks about vent position they should read this.

https://www.blackpowdermag.com/part-6-high-and-low-vent-experiments/

 

[The Appalachian]

Given The disagreement in this topic it's clear that there's room for varied opinions on their prospective functionality. Opinions seem to range from non functional to mere aesthetics. Given that it's likely that Traditions probably has a view on it which may or may not be self serving it might be helpful to shoot them.

Are you in charge of thier warranty policy?

No. You're not.

In that regard, opinions here don't mean jack either.

 

[longcruise]

For those who don't have time to read through this stuff here are the final conclusions.

The idea that one should not cover the vent with priming powder because of having to burn through the vent instead of flashing through seems equally flawed. While I did not try to fill the vent, covering the vent did not cause slower times. The closer I could get priming to the vent, the faster and more consistent the results. In fact the consistency I found in positioning the priming powder close to the vent occured at all vent positions – low, level, and high.

The last conclusion involves the reason for this whole experiment – proper location for the vent in relationship to the pan. I found that the location of the vent in relation to the pan is far more forgiving that we have believed. Tests when the vent was extremely low or high both gave quick reliable ignition. A look at the chart below shows that all vent positions gave fast ignition when primed close to the vent (This is what we learned in the preliminary tests.) Also all vent positions gave uniformly poor performance when the priming powder was banked away from the vent.

————————–Banked way—————-Level Prime—————-Close prime

Low Vent—————–.046—————————.037—————————-.038

Level Vent —————.043—————————- * —————————–.036

High Vent—————–.048—————————.043—————————-.037

*I did not time level priming when testing the level vent/pan position.

I began this series of test thinking that the big variable would be the vent location. However, I am now concluding that it is of minor concern compared to the location of the priming powder in the pan. I still like a vent level with the plan flat won’t loose sleep over a pan a little high or low.