Flintlock Shooting test with unusual results

[coloradoclyde]

Ok you win...but the affect is still the same....

So what's your explanation? :hmm:

 

[Zonie]

Water is not compressible but it does have mass and it needs to move out of the way of the projectile.

Accelerating mass to some velocity takes energy. The simple formula is F=MA or Force = Mass times Acceleration.

If the projectile enters the water slowly, the water can move out of the way fairly easily.

If the projectile enters the water at a very high speed the water acceleration must be VERY high so something has to give.
The water won't give because it can't compress.
The mass won't give because it is fixed by the atomic structure.
That leaves the projectile to take the consequences.

The faster the bullet/ball is going, the more it will suffer.

(This is why some folks say water can act like a solid if something hits it fast enough).

 

[George]

In other words, inertia, for both the ball and the water.

Misunderstanding inertia and the tremendous forces involved in even a simple straightforward example such as this can cause a lot of problems for us as shooters. And does.

Think about it...water ripped a lead ball in half. That takes some force.

Spence

 

[coloradoclyde]

Much better was of explaining it Zonie... :hatsoff: I knew I miss-stepped right out of the gate but decided to run with it.... :redface:

 

[George]

yardhunter, you did a good job with your video. There's a lot to be learned from it, if we think about it.

One ball was ripped in half, which requires a lot of force. Newton said every force has an equal and opposite force, so that same large force has to be exerted on the jug/water. It would also be exerted on a deer, so must be considered when the question of shock wave damage comes up.

Newton also said objects at rest will remain at rest and objects in motion will remain in motion unless an external force is applied to them. An object at rest resisting being put into motion we call inertia. The resistance to slowing by a moving object we call momentum. Your test demonstrated both. At the instant of impact, the balls resisted slowing and the jug/water resisted moving. Both were damaged by the forces generated.

It's also true that the forces generated are directly proportional to the speed at which they are applied, so the 100 grain ball and jug were damaged a lot more than the 50 grain ball and jug, which is easily seen in the video.

These concepts of inertia and momentum are an inescapable part of the games we play. Every trajectory of ball or shot, the differences in the flights of larger and smaller balls and shot, the concept of ballistic coefficient, the actions of energy in all, recoil, and a whole bunch of other things are caused by, influenced by or exist because of inertia and momentum. We would all benefit by learning more about them.

Thanks for posting your video. A very nice demonstration of some very important things.

Spence

 

[yardhunter]

yardhunter, you did a good job with your video. There's a lot to be learned from it, if we think about it.

One ball was ripped in half, which requires a lot of force. Newton said every force has an equal and opposite force, so that same large force has to be exerted on the jug/water. It would also be exerted on a deer, so must be considered when the question of shock wave damage comes up.

Newton also said objects at rest will remain at rest and objects in motion will remain in motion unless an external force is applied to them. An object at rest resisting being put into motion we call inertia. The resistance to slowing by a moving object we call momentum. Your test demonstrated both. At the instant of impact, the balls resisted slowing and the jug/water resisted moving. Both were damaged by the forces generated.

It's also true that the forces generated are directly proportional to the speed at which they are applied, so the 100 grain ball and jug were damaged a lot more than the 50 grain ball and jug, which is easily seen in the video.

These concepts of inertia and momentum are an inescapable part of the games we play. Every trajectory of ball or shot, the differences in the flights of larger and smaller balls and shot, the concept of ballistic coefficient, the actions of energy in all, recoil, and a whole bunch of other things are caused by, influenced by or exist because of inertia and momentum. We would all benefit by learning more about them.

Thanks for posting your video. A very nice demonstration of some very important things.

Spence

Thank you.
After reading your post, I can remember some of that science from the 7th grade. I had to read the post 3 times & it eventually made sense. The test was very interesting, especially finding that lead ball split in half.

 

[Len Graves]

I guess this is kind of like the question I have had for years. Why does a soft lead bad put quite a dent into a hard steel plate. We have to replace our hanging clangers because they get so " dented" they could throw bullets anywhere. Most of the spent bullets are found as thin ragged disks on or in the ground under the target ( which is where we want them). The answer I get is velocity, it still seems like magic

 

[George]

The answer I get is velocity, it still seems like magic

It does, doesn't it. Hard to understand that because of it's high velocity it has high momentum, so that for a tiny fraction of a second the soft lead ball acts like it is harder than the steel plate.

It's that kind of example that convinces me most shooters greatly underestimate the effect of inertia on our shooting.

Spence