Flintlock vs. Caplock accuracy

[Tom Compton]

Dude! Get the Flinter! :thumbsup:

I don't think the GPR lock is slow and it won't take much to learn how the lock likes the flint organized. You don't have togo to the range to dry fire the lock and watch the sparks. Also, when I was shooting competively, I would dry fire triggers only 10-20 times a couple of times a week to get accustomed to holding the sights on target through the shot . . . don't need to go to the range for a lot of it. :grin:

Shooting 2X per month will only take a couple of months to get the hang of it and the rewards are great. I've been shooting my flint almost exclusively for several years now and about to get or build a .54 flint for bigger game. If you get a per-suction pop gun now you will be kicking yourself for years till you do get a flint.

TC :thumbsup:

 

[graybeard]

Even a reasonably priced production gun will do all right. I have a Thompson/Center Hawken, .50 in flint, and I find the more I shoot it the more reliable it becomes. I have three other cap guns, but almost exclusively shoot the flint. graybeard

 

[ol vern]

Even a reasonably priced production gun will do all right. I have a Thompson/Center Hawken, .50 in flint, and I find the more I shoot it the more reliable it becomes. I have three other cap guns, but almost exclusively shoot the flint. graybeard

:wink: That is part of the learning carve, every
lock is different. Some want the flint bevel up some work best bevel down. Some are real pickey about how close the flint is to the fizzen some
just work no matter what ( think Chambers) You
just got experiment your lock untill you find what works best. The more you shoot the more you learn and the more reliable your lock becomes :thumbsup:

 

[Zoar]

Man, I love this place.

Always good discussions.

I have 3 flintlocks. I have two perCUSSion.

I bought the percussion BEFORE I knew flintlocks were so much more fun.

Each one of my flintlocks has a different maker lock. None of my flintlocks are expensive. They all work well. When I pull the trigger they light up. After a short time I learned the secret: When the flint gets worn it won't throw enough spark. A simple SECRET. So I change my flints "when needed". That varies from flint type to flint type and gun to gun, but it does not take a genius or alot of "practice" to figure out when you need to change flint. But I can get alot of trigger pulls from a flint before I change it.

I can understand your reluctance to "start" with a flint. It is probably the decision most people make and for the same reason. I started with perCUSSion too and most guys here did. And probably MOST (not all) then tried Flintlocks and liked them better. I think that is what you see in this thread----guys who started with perCUSSion for the same reasons you are leaning toward perCUSSION to START with, who are trying to convince you to go right to FLINT.

I shot my flintlock 54 cal Lyman Trade yesterday. I went deer hunting but didn't see any so when I got home I decided to shoot it some before cleaning it. In a snow storm at 50 yards I put 5 roundballs into a 2 inch spread standing off hand. Every shot ignited perfectly. I smiled after every shot. Flintlocks are so much fun and once I discovered the SECRET mentioned above (which is just common sense and you can learn it your FIRST time shooting them) it has been ALL GOOD.

I don't think I will ever buy another perCUSSion however I can just about guarantee I will buy and make more flintlocks. That says it all.

 

[Moloch]

So, three days ago a friend of mine went to the range with a .49 smoothbore FLINTLOCK pistol. Of course I didnt waste the chance to try it out. Fired it two times ignition was delayed for about 1.5/10 of a second, just barely enough to notice it. Unfortunately he took the wrong ball size to the range and with such a loosely patched ball in a smoothbore we didnt hit anything with it. :redface: Pretty neat, the lock produced quiet a firbeall and the smoke coming out from the pan cured my sore throat I had this morning. :grin:

But the lock didnt work at all with swiss 3FG, we had to borrow 4FG from a friend. Even the red hot sparks falling right into the powder in the pan didnt ignite 3FG. Its hard to get 4FG here because noone needs it. Another problem to solve if I go the flintlock way.

I am still note sure if I should go the easy reliable or the interesting but unknown way. :hmm:

 

[Zoar]

mo---

My guess is your friend may have put too much powder in the pan. Too much powder actualy causes a delay. It is much better to fill the pan half way, only, than it is to fill it higher or to have the powder spilling out of the pan. It may seem counter-intunitive but you should get no delay and less pan powder is the way to get that result. New shooters often pour the pan powder to overflowing thinking----if some is good more is better. ..........................Wrong.

4F is better as pan powder but 3F usually will work fine so it is odd he had issues. I wonder if his powder was damp?

You can order 4F online and it will ship basically anywhere.

Trying to resolve which way to go---perCUSSion or Flintlock is part of the fun. I hope you are enjoying this thread as much as others are!

 

[454roundball]

As many others have said, not getting a flintlock would be doing yourself a disservice. And GPR's are fine rifles. Tuning a flinter to fire consistently just isnt that tough, and can be done in your living room if you dont mind the smoke. Many many helpful threads on just that subject are available here. I learned how by reading the posts from the members with experience, and now cannot tell a difference in ignition time from a caplock to a flinter. That could be because I have split minute reflexes, but I would like to attribute it to experience gained. Get a flintlock and join the fun.

 

[BadHorse]

But the lock didnt work at all with swiss 3FG, we had to borrow 4FG from a friend. Even the red hot sparks falling right into the powder in the pan didnt ignite 3FG. Its hard to get 4FG here because noone needs it. Another problem to solve if I go the flintlock way.

I am still note sure if I should go the easy reliable or the interesting but unknown way. :hmm:

i dont know what went wrong with the fffg but, because thats what i use. you can always mash some fffg up to make ffffg.

get the rock crusher! you'll not regret it! and the GPR is a great first rock crusher. i love mine, and its one of many that i have now, and still my favorite to shoot, that whole first love thing! heck down the road, you can throw in davis triggers, and then an L&R lock. mine still has the stock parts, and is a great shooter! but i plan on upgrading soon!

karwelis

 

[Dphar]

Hello friends of the black powder! :thumbsup:

I do not own any flintlock rifle so I dont know if there is any accuracy difference in a flintlock compared with a caplock.
I've heard that the priming powder causes rather big differences in velocity because its not as consistent as the priming in a cap. This would change the point of impact, resulting in high and low hits on the target. :hmm:

End of this month I'll get my Christmas bonus so I am in business for a new rifle. Since I dont have any flintlocks I am deciding between a Investarms Hawken great plains flinter in .54 or the much more expensive Armi Sports/kimar or pedersoli Jaeger .54. But the long barrel of the great plains is very appealing.
Is a .54 loaded with 70-80 grain of FFG good enough for 100yds?

What do you guys think of investarms and the great Plains hawken? I have only rifles from pedersoli and armi sport and both are excellent rifles.- :hatsoff:

Thanks!

Actually the flint is more likely to be the most consistent. There is no flash or pressure traveling through the vent its all done by radiant heat or maybe a spark or flaming grain of powder going in the vent.
I generally shoot 90-100 gr of FFFG in a 54.
But the RIFLE makes the decision in what load it likes.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

But the lock didnt work at all with swiss 3FG, we had to borrow 4FG from a friend. Even the red hot sparks falling right into the powder in the pan didnt ignite 3FG. Its hard to get 4FG here because noone needs it. Another problem to solve if I go the flintlock way.

I am still note sure if I should go the easy reliable or the interesting but unknown way. :hmm:

Visible sparks are in the 2000 degree range, actually molten steel if really sparkly. Its simply not possible for a spark this hot to not ignite powder if it comes in contact with it.
If the lock will not light FFFG Swiss its surely got a problem.
My Manton style lock will reliably light FFG Swiss though its slower it *seems* and electronic timing has shown that FFG is slower than FFFG and this is slower than FFFFG. HOWEVER, this is the time it takes the powder to ignite in the pan. Its VERY CLOSE from powder to powder. Now since flintlocks fire from HEAT the faster heat rise of the finer powder *should* also produce faster ignition. But again its VERY close and requires electronic timing for proof. But I don't think this particular test has ever been run.
Some locks are slow and often can be improved by proper adjustments. But often its the vent.
How much powder is in the pan is irrelevant to speed unless the vent is down near the bottom of the pan (it should be at or slightly above the top line of the pan) then it *might* be slower with more powder. Otherwise this is simply silly and using minimal powder in the pan is a cause misfires due to low heat in the pan.

Dan

 

[paulvallandigham]

The key to accuracy in any rifle is a good barrel, which you can get these days on both flint and percussion guns, AND a well designed, and tuned flintlock, or percussion lock. I know a member of this forum who took a flintlock, that was recently tuned, to his club match, and he won it, beating all the shooters, both Flint and Percussion! He had never come close before! He is very happy with how fast and reliable his flintlock now functions.

If the Swiss 3Fg powder didn't ignite, it must have been damp. There is NO other explanation that makes sense, from the facts you describe.

 

[rudy parnell]

Having read all the posts and your concerns......

You'll be shooting Flintlocks before your toes turn up.......

I had reservations about the Flinters.....I now prefer the gun......no fumbling with the caps....you stated that you lean toward the bigger caps......I hear you...I feel your pain.

Get the flintlock and you'll never look back.

That's my 2 cents. :thumbsup:

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Now since flintlocks fire from HEAT, the faster heat rise of the finer powder *should* also produce faster ignition. But again its VERY close and requires electronic timing for proof. But I don't think this particular test has ever been run.[/color]
Dan

Hi Dan,
If I understand you correctly, this test has never been done. The apparatus that I used this past year to time high vs low vent locations is quite capable of measuring this. Just to make sure I understand, the test should measure the time from pan ignition to barrel ignition while varing the grain size of the priming powder. This is not difficult as long as my equipment doesn't die. (Some of my stuff can't be replaced.) I'll send a private message.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Bob J]

Percussion rifles are fun, flintlocks are addicting. Go with what YOU are comfortable with. Its kind of a "zen thing" with flintlocks; take your time, no need to be in a hurry. Enjoy each time at the range and you will acquire the proficiency over time :wink:

 

[Moloch]

Just wanted to say that I'll get a flinter, definitely...
After watching a lot of videos of people shooting with flintlocks it was so much more ''oh, ah'' than a caplock. :wink: Your opinions als helped me a LOT.

I am still not sure If I should go the budget route with a lyman GPR .54 flinter (400), the expensive way with the 1803 Harpers Ferry .54 (790) from Euroarms or the as expensive DP rocky mountain hawken.(750) Tough decision; all of them would be great hunting rifles too If I ever get my hunting permit.

But the 1803 wins the beauty contest- :wink:

 

[tecum-tha]

Moloch,
keep your hands away from Pedersoli flintlock guns. Please!! My Hatfield Frontierman is the worst flintgun due to the patented breech. Do not buy a flintlock with a patented breech. In production guns, the touchhole is not at the right place too often,too.
All above does not necessarely apply or caplocks, but for flinters it does!!!
My custom jaeger and my self-stocked jaeger made from TOTW parts work all great and are more reliable in a hunting situation as any caplock as well!!!!

 

[Moloch]

But the Lyman GPR has also a patent breech, and I never heard anything bad about them other than having a slightly slow lock due to a too soft frizzen; same with the guns from PD.

I have no Idea what the 1803 from Euroarms has, the description does not say if it has a patent or normal breech. :hmm:

Yes, a rifle built from my specifications would be king, but I am not a craftsman, I dont have enough time tobuild it and I dont have the extra money. It has to be a production flinter.

 

[BadHorse]

yes the Lyman does have a patent breach, its not hard to keep clean, and my only complaint is the flint hits the frizzen to low, but mine shoots reliably every time! the GPR is a great first flinter.

 

[Moloch]

I do not have rifle with a patent breech, I was just wondering because so many people own and shoot the GPR with the infamous patent breech but do not complain - and the rifles keep selling. :hmm:

However, I'll order the 1803 Harpers Ferry from Euroarms tomorrow, I'll post some pics in three weeks or so, hopefully it arrives just before christmas.
I really like the GPR and its heavy barrel but the 1803 looks so much more appealing to me.- Must be love. :grin:

 

[BadHorse]

well good for you! welcome to the addiction! this is just the first of many for you. these flinters are like peanuts, you cant stop at one!

karwelis