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Flintlock Wisdom & Direction Needed

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Big Ol Gobbler

32 Cal.
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
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Hey all... About a year ago, I was looking to get a flintlock kit. Since that time, I'd lost my job and came to the realization that I was not born with the handy gene. Yep, I can find unique ways to butcher just about anything. :redface:
I am now employed, thank you Lord, and in the hunt for a flintlock at some point in the near future... no hurries as I have a T/C caplock for muzzleloader season here in Sconi.
Long story short, I'd like something used (I don't have a lot to spend), .54 cal in a slow twist for p&rb. What do you folks recommend?
I've read the locks on T/Cs aren't that great and depending on when it was made, Lyman quality could be spotty. CVA... haven't seen glowing reports. Pedersoli... some good but parts seem difficult to come by if needed. Used custom would be out of my price range.
Also, whatever you recommend, if you know, ballpark, for what they should sell, I'd appreciate that info too. I could always check GB if you're uncertain.
A little help... please. Thanks!
 
"in the white" gun from a maker like Tip Curtis. Scrap and save and get that overtime.

Saw one (of Tip's -".54 Flintlock Smoothbore") like new (yet unfinished) on a classifieds for 1000 with acc.
 
I started with a 50 cal. TC flintlock and saved for a few years and then had a 50 cal. Yorktown rifle built for me by Brad Emmig. I would recommend saving for a semi or custom made rifle.
You will be happier in the end. :thumbsup:
Don
 
You did not mention what your budget is, but if you do not want a used production gun, you will probably have a difficult time finding a quality non-production used flintlock for what used production guns would go for.

Track of the Wolf has several .54 caliber flinters listed right now in the lower $1,000 range and you can make an offer for less. To do so on ToW you have to place the order, but then in the "Special Instructions" field you make your firm offer. They then take it to the owner and respond on the owner's behalf. If nothing else, just look to get ideas.

Otherwise, I agree with the advice given already...you'll be a lot happier with a semi-custom flinter.
 
Just my guess but it sounds like your budget is in the $500 range. I have TC flinters and never had problems with the lock. I had the old and new style so I personally would not hesitate to get a TC and if you are worried about the old style I think I read that they are still replacing them -- not sure on that. Good luck.

Dave

I am partial to the Renegade over the Hawken. Just feels better when I shoot but I have both and they all shoot great.
 
$500 would be at the extreme top end of my range and would require more scraping together of funds. While I would like a custom or semi-custom gun, after being unemployed for nine months, $1000 could be used to pay a lot of bills. I feel uneasy potentially spending what I've got saved already.
Maybe at some point in the distant future, I might look that route and pass whatever I have at the time down to my children. Thank you for posting.
 
man, I hear your concerns ... went through a period of unemployment once a few years ago (thank God they recalled us to the mill ... as a 58 year old factory worker, I am essentially unemployable) and now i'm gun- shy (forgive the pun - i'm already going to PunHell, so one more won't hurt).

I am given to understand that T/C rifles hold their value, but I wouldn't sell mine. I've never had problem with the lock, except that if you don't put powder in the thing it doesn't work at all well, and no amount of cussing will improve things.

I wouldn't hesitate to get a T/C Renegade or a Lyman Great Plains Rifle ... if you want to do PRB (Patched Round Ball) I would go with a slow twist barrel - the T/C rifles have 1:48 twists, which will do either PRB or a longer REAL projectile (the 1:48 is something of a compromise, but I haven't had problems shooting PRB through a faster twist barrel) ... Lyman makes RB twist (I think it's 1:60 or thereabouts) and frankly I like the wood a bit better on Lyman than T/C ... also, be aware that there are subtle but telling variations in the geometry of Lyman vs. T/C, so if at all possible, put one to your shoulder before you plonk down your hard earned, over taxed, God entrusted money.

Good luck!
 
My gut feeling is if you are going to get one, get a good one.

Do you want authenticity?

Can you save $1500-2500 in two years?

Are you willing to research the rifle you want and purchase the proper parts, store them up and then have a builder build it?

Going this route will save you some money but it will add some time to the build. If you do this though make sure that your chosen builder will work with your parts. Most will and may even offer guidance, to a point.

From time to time you can find a good used, or even new rifle from a new builder. Beware of really cheap guns and rifles. PM me if you want some info on who to avoid.

Since you already have a good production rifle, there's really no hurry in getting a flintlock. A production rifle will be pretty much the same as you have now except in flint, so enjoy your present rifle and build up a special flintlock.

Let's say you want an authentic rifle in .54. You decide on the style of John Phillip Beck. His rifles are pleasing and tend to fit modern shooters. Since you want an authentic but plainer rifle you elect to have the wooden patch box, Simple carving and a 44" barrel, brass furniture, Siler lock, triggers of your choice and mid grade stock wood.

David Keck at Knob Mountain Muzzleloading has the best "Beck" and "Lancaster Rifle" parts. He uses Fred Millers old stock patterns.

So you contact a builder and ask if they will build you a Beck rifle if you supply Keck Beck parts on a Fred Miller stock. Most will gladly do this. Most will build Chambers kit's too so that's an option also.

So your first purchase is a Colerain, Rice, Rayl, Buckeye or other custom bbl in .54 44" C wt Early American profile.

Then you purchase the proper lock and triggers.
Then you purchase the the furniture.
Then you send your barrel to Keck and have it inlet into his Beck stock.

If you're ready to have the build started You could have the now stocked barrel sent direct to your builder of choice or to you for proper storage if your not ready to start.

When ready, you send all the parts with a deposit usually 1/3 of the build price to the builder. This will knock off a lot of the price on the bottom end.

Then you will wait about a year maybe more maybe less for the final product and total balance will be due.

Here you have a direct hand in the build and you have stretched the purchase price out over time. You have also saved the builder time and you money by gathering up the parts yourself. Make sure though, the builder will work with the parts you purchase.

I cant speak for them but here's some builders.
Clay Smith
Mike Brooks
Roy Stroh
Dillion's Flintlocks
Stonewall Creek
Allen Martin
and many others....
 
Searching for a rifle is a lot of fun. I can recommend only one thing: to wait. I've been where you are and totally understand the situation. What kills everything is the lack of patience. I've spent well over 2000.00 buying used production guns and let me tell you, while it did the job and kep me happy for a while it just wasn't it. I was sallivating every time someone has posted their customs. Now I have ordered a totally custom rifle and let me tell you, the price wasn't bad at all. Pm me for details.
I would put those 500.00 away and keep adding to the pile. For around 1000.00 you're choices open significantly.
Good luck at whatever you decide.
Franz
 
I'd be glad to discuss and help you out with any details to the best of my knowledge and ability about building up your parts set, style,ect.. just PM me.

This offer also goes for anyone who wants help with the subject, just PM me

It's fun to research and build up a proper rifle :grin:

Now the least expensive custom gun is a smooth bored Indian Trade Gun. The Gs commonly had rear sights. Many came with painted stocks decorated with vines, lightning and spots.

Brooks and Smith offer the 1710s-80 Type G Carolina.

Brooks offers a "Liberty Gun" based on a plain New England fowling Peace or Committee musket

Then there is the Northwest style offered by folks like North Star West...
 
I suggest ya go to the gun shows & look for a used flintlock in a Lyman GPR or a T/C Hawken. Both will serve you well & around her you can get one from 250 to 300 bucks. THEN when you get some money saved & still want a custom rifle, can get one made, get one In-the-White from Tip Curtis, or get a used one.

Keith Lisle
 
I agree with Keith Lisle. I would add to what he said by saying that if you want a GPR, look for one of the earlier ones. Those early GPRs were really good rifles but I have heard that the one being turned out now are just not up to snuff. T/C made good guns but they are no longer making any of the traditional muzzleloaders and getting the parts can be a problem. But, if you find a good T/C or GPR, you can use it until you can afford to buy something custom. I have several custom guns with the good parts in them and they are all dandies. Some I built myself from Chambers and TVM kits, some I built from parts from here and there (all good parts, though) and one built by one of the masters. I still have my T/C Hawken and enjoy shooting it but a while back, I traded off a very nice GPR and I sure wish I had it back. I also let an early Hatfield get away. I miss that one, too. There are some really nice production guns out there. If you know what you are doing and can recognize a good gun and a junker when you see it, you can often find some deals at pawn shops. Traditional style muzzleloaders are not moving very well right now and you might run across a good one in a pawn shop and be able to make a good deal if he is wanting to sell it just to get his money out of it because it has been sitting no his shelf longer than he would like. When you are shopping for used guns, know what to look for and buyer beware.
 
I know I'm gonna catch a lotta "heck" with this post, but this is my experience and if the ol' budget is not big enough to get a custom-made rifle, then maybe this will do ya until you've got more "bucks"!

My first flinter was a new production rifle made by Traditions... a some what shorter "Pennsylvania" type rifle Traditions calls a "Shenandoah".

It has a 33½ inch barrel (1:66 twist) and is very accurate, even using my old eyes with iron sights. At 50 yards, it will put Hornady swagged .50 caliber patched, round balls in elongated "clover-leafs" shot-after-shot using FFFg Swiss or Goex.

I've never had any trouble with the double-set triggers or the flint lock although the spring on the lock is far too strong.

It is a nice looking rifle with a brass patch-box and muzzle cap together with a few other decorative "thingies" in the wood along the barrel.

New they cost around $500, but if you could find a used one, I'd bet you could pick it up for under $300... and maybe somewhat less which would hopefully fit your meager budget (and I surely know what that is!!!).

That's the "good part". Here's the "bad part"...

For some reason, Traditons puts a "Roman nose" stock on this rifle just as they do on their standard "Pennsylvania Long Rifle". Several different experienced black powder shooters tried to shoot my Shenandoah and found the high comb on the stock made it impossible to get one's face "down" on the stock far enough to properly and comfortably aim the iron sighted rifle.

My "solution" was to take a rasp and some sandpaper and lower that "Roman nose" comb down to the point which made the stock decent looking and comfortable to aim and shoot.

It actually didn't take all that much time or effort, but matching the stock's stain and color was a lot more difficult since I didn't remove and refinish the whole rifle, but only that part I sanded down. It would look a lot better if I did the whole rifle, but I was "hot" to shoot it, not sand and refinish it!

The Shenandoah is now a decent looking rifle that shoots very well at the range and it is short enough to comfortably carry easily & well in the woods for deer hunting.

I've read more than a few complaints by others about their Traditions traditional black powder rifles, but I've never had a single problem with mine... other that that crazy "Roman nose" stock. And at $300 or less along with a little work cutting down that high combed stock, you could have a pretty nice flintlock rifle that looks good and shoots real good with it's "Made-in-Spain" barrel.

Oh... one other thing. I think the Traditon's Shenandoah only comes in .50 caliber, but if you're hunting deer only, .50 caliber works just fine. For elk or larger, a .54 or even a .58 would be better.

Ok... that's it. Now I'll get ready to get told I'm "nuts" and that Tradition's rifles are "junk"... but that hasn't been my experience with 'em and I know how you feel about wanting to get into a decent flinter at a "reasonable" price. But the prices for custom-made Long Rifles isn't anything close to a "decent price"... they're lovely and expensive... unfortunately.

Like most of the others, I wanted a custom-made Long Rifle, too... and then I went to Friendship and nothing I saw under $2500 in a custom-made Long Rifle pleased me.

And so, I've had to "make-do" with my Shenandoah, but I'm havin' a bunch-of-fun shooting 500 to 600 rounds a year and watchin' those "clover-leafs" appear in the center of the target's bullseyes at 50 yards when shooting off of the bench-rest!

My only "wish" is that I wish I would have looked around more and found a used one like the one I've recommended to you. Other than that, I'm happy with the Shenandoah, but eventually, I'd love to have a custom-made Long Rifle.

Hope you find one that you like and can afford... :thumbsup:


Strength & Honor... :wink:

Ron T.
 
Basically, your rifle is a perfect "entry level" piece, and although perhaps not of the highest quality, is certainly usable. The stock design can be a problem and I would remind you that the stock designs with curved buttplates are actually designed to be braced against your arm, just outside the shoulder joint and not in the pocket between your shoulder joint and neck like flat buttplated rifles. Sometimes this helps, other times not...depends on the rifle.

A .50 caliber might be a bit light on elk but I'm no authority there. I've heard of them being taken with .50 caliber rifles at moderate ranges, but have never done it myself. Perhaps some others here with more experience with elk will chime in with better info on that regard. A lot of big game hunting with muzzleloaders depends on the hunter's working knowledge on rifle terminal ballistics and animal anatomy to achieve best results. Off hand I'd say it's possible but if you'd be more comfortable with a larger bore, by all means, get it reamed out to .54 or .58. I would imagine your rifle can stand that much bore enlargement without problem and it's cheaper than buying new artillery. Good luck & best wishes.
 
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