Flintlocks

[coscyc]

I shot and primarily hunted with flintlock rifles for over 25 years.
I have read a lot over the last year or so and this has made me decide to relate some facts, as I learned them and put them to use through the years.
This has nothing to do with what anyone did historically or any other time. All it addresses is what I know to be a fact through my usage.
I've never shared this before. It just seems to me that a lot of new flint shooters are having problems they don't need to have.

First, I attended to getting the right sparks by changing the angle between the frizzen and cock (or anvil and hammer if you choose.)
You might have to half sole the frizzen.
The most important thing I did after this was to make a touch hole bushing (liner) that was coned from the inside to within 1/8 or less of the outside. If you can't see a grain of powder looking through the touch hole, you didn't cone enough.
The hole must be where the bottom edge of the hole is even with "water level" of the pan so that with a FULL pan of powder, and the frizzen closed, the hole remains above the level of the powder.
If the original hole isn't in this position, then make a liner out of an allen screw, cone it and drill a 1/16" hole "off center" and cut a shallow slot so you can screw it in and adjust it where the bottom of the touch hole is where it needs to be. This may require you to file a little off if it sticks out some from the barrel
Don't sweat no shoulder on the bushing, it'll stay in place fine.
If tune the lock thusly, you can carry the gun in any position all day and then hold it upside down and fire it. If it doesn't go off perfectly then you forgot to prime. (heh heh)
This isn't an opinion, that's just the way it is.
With this setup, you can always use a full pan and have instant ignition with the shortest distance between flash and powder, taking maximum advantage of convection and the 1/16 touch hole is FASTER than larger ones and helps keep dew out.
Never cone on the outside. It only increases the distance the flash has to travel.

 

[tg]

I think you will find a lot of arguement on the position of the hole so that you can use a full pan of powder...you can ask a dozen builders about that one and get the same amount of different answers. I have found that my guns fire faster after I enlarged the hole to 5/64 all have the inside coned one is a Chambers liner, the others are from TOW. I will say that your comments on lock geometry/metalurgy are on the mark, the lack of attention of these details by most production level gunmakers have left a sour taste in many peoples mouths in regards to flintlocks over the years.

 

[coscyc]

Just try it.

 

[coscyc]

Oh, I forgot.
The larger hole is also more likely to allow moisture into the main charge. Just a little, but it does.
Look. Quick is quick and there is variable after variable when your dealing with this.
You have to go with what is best all around.
And as far as it goes with things like lock configuration etc. you just have to make it work.
Obviously, if the frizzen, for instance, doesn't block the powder you have to deal with it.
I'll tell you how I'd deal with it if I were a hunter. I'd fit an L&R to it or another lock that fit what I was trying to do.
I went for quick, reliable ignition and had a rifle constructed that worked. I still have it, and it still works.
It's for sale and if you buy it, and if you can't shoot it upside down (the rifle, not you) and have instant ignition, I'll buy it back.

 

Flint Shooter,
I have no doubt that your rifle will fire just as fast inverted as upright. Many have said that a rifle that can't, requires attention. I was only pointing out that there are many different locks out there and some have design details that would render some of your finding less conclusive. As you stated in your last post, "Obviously if the frizzen, for instance, doesn't block the powder you have to deal with it" but your original post didn't allow for design differences and gave me the impression that the pan cover would always block the powder period.
Since your post was directed a people new to flintlocks, I felt it important to point out that, with some locks, that isn't the case. You've given some sound advice for new shooters and I think you made a very important statement in your last post "there is variable after variable when your dealing with this"
Amen Brother

Cody

 

[tg]

I checked my hole placement on 7 flinters at it varied a bit on all, none would allow a full pan but all work well., they are large Silers, Queen Anns, Chambers Colonial and a Keatland I am not so sure I would want a full pan on my Queen Anns.. way to much whoosh up close..... I do not believe that the additional exposure to moisture from a larger hole is important at all if the pan fits the frizzen well then there should be little or none get to that point anyway, some claim that a well fit lock can be dunked in water then fired,I like 3f powder for priming while hunting as it does not draw the moisture as quickly, and the ignition time is no slowere that I can tell if you look to the originals the position of the holes and size varies considerably so even then there were different ideas as to what was the "best"

 

[musketman]

I checked my Brown Bess and the flash hole is flush with the top of the priming pan.

The flash hole is also drilled through the side of the barrel, so there is really no adjustment outside of filling in the hole and re-drilling it.

But it shoots just fine for me.

Also: FLINT SHOOTER, you can post your muzzleloaders that are for sale in the "FREE PHOTO ADS" section of this forum.

 

Flint shooter,

Great post, you make some very good points however I'ld like to comment on some of the points you make. with regards to flash hole placement your description of where the hole should be is exactly right but, unless I misunderstand, are you saying that you can carry the rifle in any position and still get instant ignition? if so, not so. On alot of locks particularily some L&R locks, the underside of the pan cover is concave toward the barrel exposing the powder under it to the flashhole when said hole is positioned as you suggest (which is the proper location). if you were to hold the rifle on it's side, lock side up, or upside down, the powder would run into the hole causing it to fuse. The pan cover on such locks will not keep the powder out of the hole. This isn't an opinion, that's just the way it is. A 1/16 flash-hole is FASTER than a larger one?? I don't think so. Larry Pletcher timed touch holes with a computer. What he found is that as the hole gets larger, ingnition times got quicker up to 1/16 and then more or less stabilized as you went larger than 1/16. The difference in ignition time is indistinguishable to the shooter. What a larger hole will give you is consistency but as you go larger, you also increase the blow out the hole. I have always used a 5/64 flash-hole which, for all intents and purposes, is not faster or slower than the 1/16 but the very nature of flinlock ignition dictates that is will be more consistent. Kind of like if you increase the size of the cup on a golf course, the golfer won't be any faster but will sink his puts more consistently. Larry's tests also showed that a VERY slight cone on the outside improved ignition time.

Cody

 

[coscyc]

O.K. I dug out my old Dixie Gunworks Tennesee Long rifle out.
This was one of my first deer rifles.
The bottom of the frizzen is concave.
This lock was tuned exactly the way I indicated and always had instant ignition (although lock time on these locks leaves a little to be desired)
I fired it in all positions after carrying it around in different positions and leaning it up for awhile, and it performed spot on both right side up and inverted.
One thing is that with the 1/16 hole, powder doesn't get into the hole to the degree it might with larger holes.
And in dry weather I used priming that I ground fine from 3f. (Ceramic mortor and pestle and grinding veeeery small amounts and taking logical precautions.)
When you turn the rifle into firing position, the prime falls to where it belongs.
I never had a problem with this rifle that I could attribute to the lock tuning.

I had to think awhile about the inverted but after some thought, I think that the powder starts moving when the frizzen is struck and when it's ignited it must be in motion.
I know that for ten rounds, there was no appreciable difference.
You can hypothesize this to death all you care but it's still true. Hypotheticals are fine but the truth is still in the pudding, so to speak.
Also, it was a hot and humid day.
Had as small effect on quickness for the rifle,
and a lot of effect on the rifleman.
Cheers,
Cosby.

 

[Randy]

This is an interesting topic since there seems to be more than one right way to get the job done.
I have a replica 1803 Harpers Ferry rifle built frome parts from the Riffle Shoppe. The lock was totally fit from rough castings and then hardened and tempered as required to make springs, tumbler, sear and frizzen functional. The touchole was placed high up as Flintshooter describes. First time on the range it only fired about 2 out of three times. Always had sparks and pan flash. After enlarging the hole to 5/64 with a very slight cone on the outside (just enough so the larger inside cone and the outside cone nearly meet) I then had flawless ignition for about ten shots. Coincidence? --- Maybe. How much powder do you all use in the pan? I always thought less was better (about 2 or 3 grams)
Horse Dr.

 

Horse Doctor,
2 or 3 grams ? a typo I assume
I use a priming horn, much to the shagrin of some, with a spring loaded spout/dispenser. I don't know how many grains it dispenses but I push it down in the pan by the barrel, let it up just enough to clear the pan and drag it across the pan drawing a line about 1/8" wide all the way across the pan. I lift it out at the farthest point from the barrel and any powder thats left in the spout stays there. My theory being that if a spark falls anywhere in the pan it will find powder. If I just piled it in the middle of the pan, a spark at either end may not hit powder. Some people pile the powder in the middle of the pan, close the frizzen and tip the rifle side to side to distribute the powder around. that would work as well.

Cody

 

[AgesofDays]

i`m new here so bear with me ...does anyone know of the new pa pellet flintlock made by traditions yeah.... neah.....or other would be most helpful .....I am lefthanded and used to shoot righthanded flints but lately I cant anymore so i`m interested in left handed flinters the post about the beard catching fire does happen ..........t/c doesnt make lefties anymore lyman ,and afew others do ive only bought t/c but now have to consider other ave. your imput would be much apperciated ...what am i looking for? well lefty flint .traditional looking .modern preforming .fast twist would like it to be made in the states but.... and oh I forgot the most important around 400$$$

 

[tg]

I think Lyman makes a lefty flinter??? I don't know about the fast twist barrels that is more of a modern ML thing for use with modern design bullets. I don't know if there has been much effort to mix the old and the new with flinters, most who use these guns prefer the old ways and the RB.