Flintolock pistol rises, never hit the target :-(

[Doug Fay]

I took my Royal Navy Sea Service pistol shooting yesterday for the first time and never hit the target at 7 yards. It's .62 caliber, 12" barrel, and I used 30 grains of 1fg or 2fg on various shots. Most of the shots were with a lubed-patched round ball. I probably did 8 shots total. Had I been in a fierce battle with pirates of the Spanish Main, I would surely have been killed.

My guess is that by the time the bullet left the barrel, the recoil had already caused the barrel to rise, thus shooting very high. The smoke prevented me from seeing where the bullets actually went. I think I did get one bullet in the wood about 18" above the target, because there was a large hole in it.

A picture of the pistol is attached - as you can see, the grip is not terribly far below the barrel.

Does anybody have any ideas or advice?

 

[Bad Karma]

I took my Royal Navy Sea Service pistol shooting yesterday for the first time and never hit the target at 7 yards. It's .62 caliber, 12" barrel, and I used 30 grains of 1fg or 2fg on various shots. Most of the shots were with a lubed-patched round ball. I probably did 8 shots total. Had I been in a fierce battle with pirates of the Spanish Main, I would surely have been killed.

My guess is that by the time the bullet left the barrel, the recoil had already caused the barrel to rise, thus shooting very high. The smoke prevented me from seeing where the bullets actually went. I think I did get one bullet in the wood about 18" above the target, because there was a large hole in it.

A picture of the pistol is attached - as you can see, the grip is not terribly far below the barrel.

Does anybody have any ideas or advice?

Use a larger target until you know where it’s hitting…

 

[Phil Coffins]

No sights and smooth bore, you’re getting exactly what it was made to do. Try buck shot.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Oh, and nice looking pistol!

 

[PathfinderNC]

Try 5 yards. Then walk it out from there after seeing where it’s going. Remember it’s a tapered barrel so if you are aiming down the barrel it’s actually pointing upwards. I can hit an 8” gong at almost 20 yards with a Smoothbore pistol. It can actually do pretty well.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

same as the queen anne. Gotta aim low.

 

[Sam squanch]

Like a modern snubnose revolver, these will never be a long range affair. Bad breath distance.

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

Nothing to worry about, the pirates on the Spanish Main were probably even worse shots.

 

[Banjoman]

I had a smooth bore pistol similar to this in .69 caliber with no sights. Shooting a round ball, I couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn if I was standing in it. It was a lot more fun with buck shot.

 

[Doug Fay]

Try 5 yards. Then walk it out from there after seeing where it’s going. Remember it’s a tapered barrel so if you are aiming down the barrel it’s actually pointing upwards. I can hit an 8” gong at almost 20 yards with a Smoothbore pistol. It can actually do pretty well.

Very impressive shot. What were your caliber, barrel length, granularity of powder and how many grains did you use? I'm beginning to think that 30 grains of 2fg with a .595 lead ball, .62 caliber 12" barrel may not be enough, because your shot made a loud bang, whereas mine were more like loud "poof" sounds.

 

[JeffG]

Aim for the breeches, matey.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Very impressive shot. What were your caliber, barrel length, granularity of powder and how many grains did you use? I'm beginning to think that 30 grains of 2fg with a .595 lead ball, .62 caliber 12" barrel may not be enough, because your shot made a loud bang, whereas mine were more like loud "poof" sounds.

.50 caliber with 30 grains 3f and patched .490 rb

 

[RMFnLA]

Muzzle rise doesn’t begin until the bullet leaves the barrel.

Try some of the suggestions offered here.

 

[French Colonial]

Muzzle rise doesn’t begin until the bullet leaves the barrel.

Try some of the suggestions offered here.

So...

Are you also implying that recoil does not begin until the bullet leaves the barrel?

 

[wiscoaster]

I came across a video documenting that those pistols were shot while holding in a sideways grip:

I have one on order from Loyalist and it'll be fun to try shooting it that way.

 

[RMFnLA]

So...

Are you also implying that recoil does not begin until the bullet leaves the barrel?

Not implying it, stating it.

Simple physics.

The explosion of the ignited powder pushes on the bullet and the breech in equalibrium, so there is no movement of the gun itself in either direction.

Once the bullet leaves the barrel it is no longer being pushed, but the push against the breech continues, causing the gun to move back, aka: recoil.

Works that way for all guns, not just muzzle loaders.

 

[RMFnLA]

I came across a video documenting that those pistols were shot while holding in a sideways grip:

I have one on order from Loyalist and it'll be fun to try shooting it that way.

Who knew those gang bangers are actually re-enactors?

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

RmFnLA - It definitely is physics, but you don't have it right. Recoil starts the instant the ball and the gas column start to move and continues as long as they are accelerating and are inside the gun. The speed of the ball plus the expelled gas times their mass will equal the speed of the gun times its mass. The gun moves back (and probably up because of the way it's held) and continues to move because it now has that momentum, and the same thing for the ball or bullet.
The cause of recoil doesn't start when the bullet leaves the barrel, it stops then. The recoil continues because it had already started to move.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Things in motion remain in motion until something stops them.
It's like trying to throw a baseball when you're on roller skates - the ball goes one way, you go the other way.
It's also why felt recoil is much less if you hold a gun tight against you, then you are adding your mass into the equation, making the speed part less.

 

[French Colonial]

RmFnLA - It definitely is physics, but you don't have it right. Recoil starts the instant the ball and the gas column start to move and continues as long as they are accelerating and are inside the gun. The speed of the ball plus the expelled gas times their mass will equal the speed of the gun times its mass. The gun moves back (and probably up because of the way it's held) and continues to move because it now has that momentum, and the same thing for the ball or bullet.
The cause of recoil doesn't start when the bullet leaves the barrel, it stops then. The recoil continues because it had already started to move.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Things in motion remain in motion until something stops them.
It's like trying to throw a baseball when you're on roller skates - the ball goes one way, you go the other way.
It's also why felt recoil is much less if you hold a gun tight against you, then you are adding your mass into the equation, making the speed part less.

This is also why in BPCR rifles a heavy bullet will shoot higher than lighter bullets at short ranges.

The longer dwell time in the barrel and increased recoil causes the barrel to rise more before the bullet exits the muzzle.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Muzzle rise doesn’t begin until the bullet leaves the barrel.

Try some of the suggestions offered here.

Not so. Rise begins as soon as ignition happens. With rifles the effect is almost unnoticeable because of barrel length and weight. With pistols it is a real factor. Target pistols often have a tall front sight just to compensate for this effect.