Fly Removal?

[flntlokr]

Good morning to all you members of the forum! I was hoping I might be able to pick your brain here. I went to shoot a custom Kentucky flintlock I purchased from another member for the first time, and I was quite disappointed to learn that while sometimes the cock will have a positive engagement at half and full cock, other times it would not; in fact, sometimes the sear wouldn’t properly engage, and the cock would fall forward with just the slightest of finger pressure— sometimes it wouldn’t engage at all and would come forward when simply released. It appears as though the fly isn’t working properly and is somehow impeded by the lobe of the fly. There’s actually a small amount of wear on the sear because of this. Is there any reason I couldn’t simply dress the sear edge and remove the fly altogether?

View attachment 320806

Before you get all blacksmithy and do any metal work or remove any parts, check the clearance of the sear arm and the wood above it and at its end. ( use some inletting black or lipstick) If it even lightly touches the wood, weather changes can cause incomplete engagement with the tumbler, as can over tightening the lock screws. (just a thought, based on lots of similar scenarios)

 

[Notchy Bob]

That sear's nose is shaped totally wrong. If you don't feel like replacing the internals then I strongly suggest that you send the lock to The Log Cabin Shop for repairs.

Yessir. I agree with ZUG.

It sounds as if the lock is now functional, but is it optimal? The sear nose looks wonky to me. It needs to latch securely in the half cock notch (which is the “safety” position), but it also needs to engage correctly in the full-cock position. You do want a light, crisp trigger, but you absolutely don’t want the cock to fall until the trigger is pulled.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[waksupi]

And I agree 100%. It's been FUBAR'ED enough already.

 

[SDSmlf]

The guy’s a national champion shooter and had excellent feedback

Unfortunately, just because someone is a national champion shooter doesn’t mean they are a gunsmith or know how to check, tune or repair a lock. It would appear you are drifting towards the things could become dangerous area. Think unintended discharge….. I would be looking for factory fresh replacement components or sending the lock off to a specialist. Or maybe return the gun if possible.

 

[M. De Land]

Good morning to all you members of the forum! I was hoping I might be able to pick your brain here. I went to shoot a custom Kentucky flintlock I purchased from another member for the first time, and I was quite disappointed to learn that while sometimes the cock will have a positive engagement at half and full cock, other times it would not; in fact, sometimes the sear wouldn’t properly engage, and the cock would fall forward with just the slightest of finger pressure— sometimes it wouldn’t engage at all and would come forward when simply released. It appears as though the fly isn’t working properly and is somehow impeded by the lobe of the fly. There’s actually a small amount of wear on the sear because of this. Is there any reason I couldn’t simply dress the sear edge and remove the fly altogether?

View attachment 320806

I see the half cock notch and fly , can we see the cock pulled back to the full cock notch or is that at full cock ?
I can see the sear nose has been rounded off and should be square and straight across.
There needs to be some space between the full and half cock notch on the hammer so the fly can deflect the sear nose over the half cock notch as the cock falls.
If you remove the fly the sear nose will catch in the half cock notch generally especially with a set trigger.
I suspect the fly may have raised a burr on the rounded off sear nose that is impeding full cock engagement.

 

[waksupi]

I can see the sear nose has been rounded off and should be square and straight across.

I've seen buggered sears like this before. They figure less contact, better trigger pull. Nope, it increases the trigger weight. For a simple demonstration, hold the fingers of one hand straight out, put it against the palm of the other hand, and keeping force between the two, pull your fingers down your palm. Then, make a fist, and repeat the same motion against your other palm. Which one moves easier? The fist, with the larger surface area.

 

[Idahomie]

I’ll be taking the pistol to a local gunsmith for a complete assessment. This “Blount Co.” lock was produced in 1986; I seriously doubt that Dixie Gun Works offers replacement parts of any sort for it.

 

[waksupi]

If the gunsmith doesn't know muzzleloader locks, he may do more harm, than good. A modern gunsmith knows diddly squat about them. It has to be someone who really knows these muzzleloader locks.
I'd be tempted to bill the seller for the repair price.

I’ll be taking the pistol to a local gunsmith for a complete assessment. This “Blount Co.” lock was produced in 1986; I seriously doubt that Dixie Gun Works offers replacement parts of any sort for it.

 

[Idahomie]

If the gunsmith doesn't know muzzleloader locks, he may do more harm, than good. A modern gunsmith knows diddly squat about them. It has to be someone who really knows these muzzleloader locks.
I'd be tempted to bill the seller for the repair price.

This guy’s an old timer, waksupi, and he’s been heavily steeped in black powder for longer than I’ve been alive— he’s even got a couple of bison mounts that he took with his muzzleloader some 30-odd years ago.

I should think any competent gunsmith ought to know how to rework a sear for proper angle/engagement, right? That’s Gunsmithing 101.

I put approximately 15 rounds through the pistol this afternoon with nary a problem. I’m getting positive engagement at both half cock and full cock notches (audible clicks), and I’m unable to force the cock forward with firm thumb pressure, so I don’t feel as though it’s the ticking time bomb some have made it out to be. I’d definitely feel better about getting a professional’s evaluation though.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I’ll be taking the pistol to a local gunsmith for a complete assessment. This “Blount Co.” lock was produced in 1986; I seriously doubt that Dixie Gun Works offers replacement parts of any sort for it.

Dixie’s website is almost hopeless for finding things. The best strategy I have found is to look up what you want in their printed catalog to get the item number, then type that in the search box to confirm the item is still available, and then place the order online.

With that said, I researched that Blount Co. lock some yesterday, online and in the only printed Dixie catalog I’ve kept (No. 160, from 2011), and did not find much. There are a few custom guns out there with this lock, and there was some discussion of the lock in a thread on the ALR website, but I could not find parts for this specific lock anywhere. However, @Idahomie knows more about this lock than I do, and if he needs parts, he may know better where to look, and I’m sure a skilled gunsmith could adapt parts from other locks if needed. The point may be moot, though, if @Idahomie has gotten his pistol shooting safely and consistently.

Something was said above about gunsmiths. I sent a lock to a muzzle-loading gunsmith for work, and he basically ruined the tumbler and sear. A minor problem became a major one. Granted, locks were not his specialty, but he told me he could handle it. I ended up sending the entire gun (a Euroarms Richmond) to Lodgewood. The gunsmith there had to replace and adapt parts, but he fixed the lock properly. So, I know Mr. Stavlo at Lodgewood is a good one for fixing locks, as is Brad Emig at Cabin Creek Muzzleloading. I’ve heard the gunsmiths at the Log Cabin Shop in Ohio do good work, and I think somebody said Lee Shaver can fix locks, but I have no personal experience with these last two.

The pistol that is the subject of this thread looks like a nice one, and I’m glad the new owner got in some quality time with it on the range, with no mishaps or problems.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob