ETipp, your 240 Gr. bullet punched that cookie cutter hole due its high velocity (and shape). If you could push your 360 maxi to the same velocity you would have another cookie cutter hole in that sheet metal. That torn protruding metal is just indicative of low velocity.
It was not a total cookie cutter hole, it had some jagged edges.
Lt James Forsyth addressed this same question in his “Sporting Rifles and Their Projectiles”, a slim book that summed up the challenges of different black powder projectiles. He compared the new Minie slug and other elongated lead bullets to the round ball. Trajectory, range, striking power and results on flesh and bone etc were all analyzed. For hunting pretty much everything in India, Forsyth concluded that nothing could beat the round ball at sporting ranges up to 200 yards. It’s pretty interesting to see the same discussion today, albeit with some different projectiles included. Funny how in the 160 years since Forsyth’s book, sportsmen still face the same challenges. Forsyth did not anticipate smokeless powders or hypervelocity small projectiles with huge shock value. I don’t know if any of these modern systems would have moved him away from the round ball, because he was a sportsman giving wild game animals a sporting chance. He put real value on fieldcraft, and he was not sniping them from six hundred yards away. Seems to me the people on this website are cut in the mold of Lt Forsyth. We like challenging ourselves and meeting the animals on their own territory. I can admire and respect this spirit of the hunter. It’s a real antidote to an unfortunate trend with modern arms and optics.Lets just say that the 240 is a smaller dia hollow point.
To further illustrate this, those unmentionables are known for blowing big holes in deer and/or overexpansion. Whereas the Maxi Balls were hard cast and all the critters I have ever put one through puts a .50 caliber hole coming and going. That is until solid bone is hit. The amount of damage they do then is unbelievable. I suppose I should have mentioned that.
Now to even further prove this, lets go back to the other unmentionable. It was a 300 grain made of another alloy and is an extreme hollow point. So much so that many people will not use them and they are not known for penetration. Even the manufacturer states this. It was traveling faster than the Maxis, made of thinner extreme hollow point, same bore diameter, but did not do near the damage in the metal as the Maxis did. All were shot with the same powder charge from 100 yards.
Considering the above, one can only come to the conclusion that it is a larger, slower, heavier projectile that is most damaging on critters, even if they do not expand.
There is some very good ML penetration tests on Youtube by I Love Muzzleloaders. He shoots different ML projectiles into lined up water jugs. All with the same .50 ML from 100 yards. All with the same charge. Out of many different projectiles he tests, the average ones penetrate about 4 to maybe 5 jugs. He shot a 500 grain conical using the same powder charge. It destroyed and went through 9 jugs. About double the other ones did. And that particular one did have some expansion.
Indeed, there is something about a heavier ML projectile that is no doubt traveling slower that is superior upon impact.
My .02
Probably cause folks shoot longer ,I do with conicals and deer are scarce where I hunt ,I like to eat (regular)/EdIn reading many posts on deer and bear hunting, I am very surprised at the number of contributors that down play the use of smaller caliber rifles like the .40 or .45 ( if legal in your state). Historically it been proven that these smaller calibers harvest deer, bear, and hogs cleanly with a single shot. Yet so many push for the larger .50, .54 calibers. Now don't get me wrong, the larger bores work Great!! and I love hunting with my .54 caliber, but have harvested deer and hogs easily with my .45 rifles with patch and round balls. After all hunters killed Bison with 45/70s ( .45 cal conical bullet with 70 grains black powder). History has showed us this can and does work on LARGE game yet so many are nervous about hunting deer with them. Now I'm talking about solid lung shots at reasonable distances (80 yards and under). I guess I'm curious why folks feel they have to go to bigger calibers for Med size game? At most of the Museums I've been to that had displays of muzzleloading rifle most of the guns from the mid west and south were .35 to .45 calibers. So anyways just my two cents worth, and would love to hear success stories with small caliber rifles and or why you prefer a larger caliber. Not trying to start anything as I don't believe there is a wrong answer. I look forward to hearing from you all.
Probably would ,I use both ,with conicals will do it @ 200 + yds . I got both and the Kibler SMR in 45 stays with squirrels while I'm big on 50/54 Renegades with Lyman Plains (home cast ) as store bought don't work for me and the folks who buy mine/Ed
I think a lot of this goes right back to modern guns and a modern hunter mind set. Most of us shot some sort of suppository gun before learning about real guns.
Interesting question. I know for a fact that a larger, heavier, solid point conical are superior penetrators in big game, this is especially at longer distances. With round balls weighing less, by a lot in some cases, my guess is that alone will be a major factor when comparing them to a heavier conical. As I have said, there's something about a big solid, heavy chuck of lead shot out of ML that makes the difference. Penetration is often directly related to ball/conical weight, as well as design. Hollow point ML conical type rounds tent not to penetrate in larger game as much due to the fact that they often heavily expand. So again, a heavy solid chunk of lead wins in that department. However, those same over expanding conical type projectiles can and do make very good performers on lighter game and at moderate distances.
Thanks for the real world testing report. For many applications, a .45 RB will suffice. No doubt about that one. I would very much like for my next ML to be a .45 caliber, most likely a long rifle. Just a good all round caliber for taking small game and medium size game out to moderated distances. I would not hesitate to use it as my primary squirrel rife and and at closer distances I have little doubt it will put down the average size deer in these parts.
