For Dummies: Casting Minies?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Guys I got a .577 (Enfield) Minnie ball rifle coming and never casted anything in my life! I live in an apartment and move frequently (military) so what I’m needing is the absolute basic, most portable setup for casting and sizing Minnie bullets.

I know I need to slug the barrel to find which mold I need. Any easy way to slug a barrel in an apartment? Then wouldn’t my moulde need to be at least 1 or 2 thou. bigger, so it can be sized down to 1 or 2 thou. below land diameter???

I need a basic shopping list and a source for lead and supplies and all that. Plus basic instructions how to do it without burning down my apartment or giving myself lead sickness.

Please help!!

-Smokey

 

[hawkeye2]

Once you have accurately determined your bore size you will need a ready to load finished projectile that is .001" to .002" (max) under that bore diameter. It can be smaller but accuracy will begin to fall off with increased clearance and probably more fouling. When choosing a mold there are a number of things to take into consideration. The temperature of your lead and the mold can affect the size of the mini as can the lead alloy. Of course you should be using pure lead for a mini to get correct expansion. Another thing is the manufacturer's tolerances, no two molds are exactly the same though quality molds will be very close. Finally though a manufacturer states their mold will cast a .580" mini you may not be able to duplicate that figure. The best thing is to choose a mold that casts, per the manufacturer, a mini just slightly larger than you actually need. If the mold is too much larger than what you need it will be difficult to size and you will loose some of the depth of the grease grooves. Now that you have a mold you will need a sizer of the exact diameter you have calculated. Now you can ignore all that and just buy any old mold and pound the ball into the muzzle or let it fall to the bottom and live with what you have but you won't have much luck shooting good scores.

http://oldfoxtraders.com/TnMolds/molds.htm

https://moosemoulds.wixsite.com/mm2013

Lee, Lyman and RCBS also make mini ball molds. Choosing a bullet style and weight are quite another topic as is slugging your bore and choosing a casting/sizing system.

 

[45man]

I have found a Minie' must be a tight fit and not depend on skirt expansion. You will be better off to make a minie' to groove then land size. Most molds cast too small so I lapped them. I took rifles from center of elephant at 50 to hitting 200 meter gongs by fit.
You can cast on the kitchen stove or a Colman stove with good results. No worry about lead at casting temperatures.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks, all! Does anyone make a mould for the historical round nose minie balls? Are those not accurate?

My goal is to be able to fire the musket without it getting fouled up at least a dozen times. I want to load paper cartridges and shoot like they did in the civil war. But I also want to maintain decent accuracy, if possible. Doesn't the Minnie design allow for repeated shots without having to wipe between shots yet still maintains accuracy?

 

[bang]

Once you measure bore the size will be easier to determine. Some would shoot a .569 Pritchett in a paper cartridge. Problem is the Pritchett mold would have to be made as far as I know there aren't any commercially made. I looked for one thinking I was going to need it for a slightly under sized 58. Turned out the .575 worked good. Thumb press in and easy enough start. Ram is smooth and scrapes a bit all they way down. I think the .575 will work and be easy to size down. If you shoot a patched ball I suggest a .562 with .015 or .020 patch. As snug as you can get without needing to hammer it to start it but not so loose thumb pressure will. Lee makes affordable mold and pretty typical they come out a hair under.
Being in an appartment it may be a challenge for casting. You really need good ventilation. If you have a balcony it could do. Depending on how much shooting you plan on is also a factor. If you just shoot occasionally it might be better to buy them for convenience sake.
You can get a bottom pour pot and mount it to a board you can clamp to a sturdy table. Or a pot that you would use a ladle to pour. I started with an electric hot plate and a little cast iron skillet ash tray. I cut a pouring V and attached a wood handle.
Use pure lead. Most stick on wheel weights are at or near pure. The others have alloys and can damage the barrel. For a thick patched ball it not too big a deal since the ball does not contact the barrel.
Not sure about your rifle, but most I've seen the military recommended powder load is probably 60gns. Look it up to be sure.
Typically no more than 70 for a hollow base mini. Too much and the skirt can blow out when it leaves the barrel. All depends on the thickness of the skirt band, It slows it and can make it walk. Lube the sides with something along lines of crisco. I use a mix of wax and veg oil melted together to make a sticky consistency.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks! Yes I do have a fairly large balcony with a concrete floor. I’ll probably cast out there. I plan to shoot quite a bit, but the cost of already made minies is prodigious.

So what would be a good, affordable, compact lead melter? Also I will need a mould and a sizer? But first, for a minie rifle, what is the easiest way to determine bore size?

 

[bang]

I've had a lee bottom pour for over 20 years. Can find for 60-70 sometimes little less. Ebay usually has good selection. I find the temp setting of 8 makes good cast. If you can't find lead locally I suggest Robometals online. 5lb bars usually around 13. Bit cheaper and free ship if you get 9 or more bars. Look up about casting. Mold prep. Preheating mold. And use of pariffin for fluxing.
Typically people make a lead slug. You can put a rod centered with a plug firmly attached about an inch down the muzzle and preheat it a bit then pour molten lead in. Pull it out when cooled then measure the land with calipers. Or, if you know someone with ball gauges which is simplest. I've made a a lead slug and tapped it in the bore. If the lands are spaced so there is a land 180 from another you can use the inside measure of calipers. Mine was a 3 land and it was difficult because there wasn't 2 lands directly across the center. Just me but I like to know both the groove to groove and land to land. The land to land is the important one.
Same place for mold. But don't get it till you measure. Pretty sure it will be the .575.
Sizers can be found online. I have adjustable reamers so I make mine. Depending on how much you need to size you may need several and a method to push the projectile through squarely. Would not try to size down more than .002 at one time. Have a good feeling you won't need too.

 

[Eterry]

I started casting lead by using a small cheap cast iron skillet and a Coleman stove on the tail gate of my dad's truck. A friend gave me a handmade left hand dipper, which i still use. Don't forget good gloves, and a non ferrous something (i currently use a nylon hammer) to strike the pivot point of the handles to drop the minie. I still have the skillet after 40 yrs, but don't use it much. I use a candle to smoke the mold cavity, helps bullets release.
The white gas will melt lead quickly.
I started casting minie ball 10 years ago, i bought a .575 Lee minie used for $10. Go to Lee Precision website, they describe how to shim a mold up to .005" before concentricity is lost.
I used receipt paper and modified my .575 to a .578. I don't have a sizer and this as cast minie shoots a 3 MOA group at 75yards with 60grs of fffg.

The minie gun is a challenging item, but when it all comes together it's a hoot to hunt with.

Something that's helped me tighten my groups is to use a lot of poundage after seating the minie, not pounding or hammering, but using as much pressure as you can, and being consistent with that. Maybe it's the consistency that helps, IDK.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks so much, all.

I’ve read a pin gauge is the best way to figure the bore size. I’ll buy a set. So that covers that.

Next, a Lee bottom pour lead melter. Then, a mold and sizers. I would assume we’ll need my bore diameter before even worrying about those two items, so I’ll wait.

So trying to take this one step at a time. First mission is obtain the rifle. Second is measure bore diameter with the pin gauge set. I’ll report back and then we can talk about molds and sizers. Thank you all for bearing with me and helping a young shooter continue the tradition!!

 

[hawkeye2]

Have you priced a pin gauge set? I would recommend the Lee Magnum Melter and a ladle. You'll find that setup more versatile and you may not be able to cast a mini using a bottom pour furnace. Almost everyone I know has plugged the bottom pour feature and gone to a ladle.

https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...ipment/lee-melters/lee-magnum-melter-110-volt

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Have you priced a pin gauge set? I would recommend the Lee Magnum Melter and a ladle. You'll find that setup more versatile and you may not be able to cast a mini using a bottom pour furnace. Almost everyone I know has plugged the bottom pour feature and gone to a ladle.

https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...ipment/lee-melters/lee-magnum-melter-110-volt

Thank you, I’ll look into that furnace. I will probably just sell the pin gauges once I’m done with them. I live in Las Vegas and there is no gunsmith in town I’d trust to even begin to know how to pull a breech plug to slug the barrel, unless there’s some other way? I certainly do not feel comfortable, nor do I have the tools, to pull the plug myself (so to speak).

 

[bang]

Thank you, I’ll look into that furnace. I will probably just sell the pin gauges once I’m done with them. I live in Las Vegas and there is no gunsmith in town I’d trust to even begin to know how to pull a breech plug to slug the barrel, unless there’s some other way? I certainly do not feel comfortable, nor do I have the tools, to pull the plug myself (so to speak).

No need to pull breach plug.
I've got bunches of 45, 50 and .575 minis all poured with my bottom pour smelter. Even have 1.25 spacer to get mold to .5 inch of spigot and the mold sits on the spacer making it nice and steady.
Recommend aluminum bar or hammer to strike the plate to cut the sprew.

As you can see on this model there is plenty of space for a mold.
Main thing on bottom pour is to keep it clean and use clean lead.
Up to you.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

No need to pull breach plug.
I've got bunches of 45, 50 and .575 minis all poured with my bottom pour smelter. Even have 1.25 spacer to get mold to .5 inch of spigot and the mold sits on the spacer making it nice and steady.
Recommend aluminum bar or hammer to strike the plate to cut the sprew.
View attachment 17144
As you can see on this model there is plenty of space for a mold.
Main thing on bottom pour is to keep it clean and use clean lead.
Up to you.

How would you slug without pulling the breach plug and driving it through? I’m sure there’s a way?

Seems a Lee 110V electric pot might be really nice? What type of ladle would I need?

I’m reading casting minie balls is really hard? Do you guys think I can learn to do it??

 

[Stantheman86]

You should be able to shoot properly sized Minies all day without cleaning.

I routinely shoot a 40 round Cartridge Box full of them.

I just suck it up and pay Dixie 50 cents a piece for .575 Minies, and I use a candle wax melter to hot dip them in SPG lube and a cheap Arbor press and dowels to push them through sizers.

Roll em up into 1863 Pattern cartridges, lots of fun. Accuracy is just fine. Minies were designed to give acceptable accuracy in combat and load in a fouled bore.

Forcing tight Minies down a bore or wiping in between shots , is, in my opinion, going against the entire reason the Minie exists.

If you want accuracy and a tight bullet shoot a solid base bullet like a REAL.

There's really not a lot of things cooler in the shooting hobby than grabbing a full cartridge box with 40 rounds in it, maybe a few more in the range bag......a repro rifle-musket and going to the range.

 

[Stantheman86]

Slugging the bore? Just try different size Minies and see what shoots the best. Get 50 each of .575 and. 577 for starters, Lodgewood and Dixie sell the sizers. If the Minies are already somewhat close they'll just push through the sizers with a wooden rod and some hand pressure.

I've never once slugged a bore, I just shoot em and see which bullets do the best.

Get some push thru hand sizers, lube the bullets with Burts Bees and use a powder measure and the loose, lubed bullets to see how they shoot.

 

[bang]

PM me your address. I'll mail you a .578 and a .575.

 

[fleener]

you can put a solid rod that is shorter then the barrel in the barrel then take a over sized piece of lead and force it into the barrel that has been lubed. Simple turn the barrel upside down and make the rod inside the barrel bump up against the piece of lead and it will knock it out.

Fleener

 

[Eterry]

A gentleman on the n-ssa site was kind enough to send me a variety of minies, the .578 fit best.

 

[dave951]

I'm NSSA and I started with a Lee 10lb dripomatic. Still have it, it works fine. I keep a small jar lid to catch the drips and put them back in the pot while I'm casting.

Basic and portable-
Lee bottom pour pot. (I have 3 dripomatics)
Mold that works good in your gun.
Pure lead as you can get.

Nobody has mentioned temp, so I'll put this out. In nearly EVERY minie mold I have, aluminum, steel and other materials, minies like to be cast at a high temp. My thermometer says about 850-900. That's about 8.5-9 on the dial on the Lee pot. Colder temps result in voids, poorly formed skirts, and very variable weights.

If you are so fortunate as to get a mold that drops a minie that won't require sizing, then you're set. If you're going to need sizing, get a cheap single stage reloading press and the correct sizer with 7/8x14 thread. OldFox has a good one.

For load development, start at about 38gr, shoot test groups and start increasing the charge by 2gr. Stop when the group has reached it's minimum size and starts to open back up.

Lube- ask 5 NSSA guys, get 12 answers. My favorite, arrived at through testing, is beeswax/lard 60/40. It works in most of my guns and loads and I can run 40+ shots with no problems. I have a couple that don't respond to it and have to use something else in them, so I have a couple different lube conccotions on hand.

 

[Stantheman86]

KISS, keep it simple.

A lot of people try to outsmart 200 year old technology.

Both the various developed military Ordnance Dept's and civilians simply took a bunch of different bullets, powder charges/types, lubes, paper etc and just shot guns with them to see what worked.

Both the US and CSA did a lot of testing of ammunition, the US changed the composition of Minie lube at least once or twice.

If an entire US Ordnance Dept took months of daily shooting in the 1850s to decide if .58 was better than. 69 Minie, then I don't expect to develop a load for one of my rifles overnight.

I'm doing just this tomorrow, taking my .69 Musket out with a variety of paper types, a bunch of round balls, .660 slugs and different lubes and I'm just gonna go to the pistol pits at my range and shoot .