Forestock proportions

[Onojutta]

How do the forestock proportions look on this rifle, specifically the length of the lower forearm between the trigger guard and the rear entry thimble? It's a 44" swamped C weight Rice barrel.

 

[Micah Clark]

That's a pretty rifle . . . I can't see too closely and I am a novice, but it looks a little little like it slants or thins out heading toward the rear thimble, and I am not sure it should, but again, that could just be the pic, and you should get more than just my opinion.

 

[Onojutta]

Here's another view

 

[Vaino]

The distance from the breech end of the bbl to the drop off at the entry pipe is somewhat of a personsl preference, but it seems a tad long on the pictured LR.

Most of my LRs have this dim as 11-1/2" to 12". What is this dim on your LR?.....Fred

 

[Onojutta]

The distance from the breech end of the bbl to the drop off at the entry pipe is somewhat of a personsl preference, but it seems a tad long on the pictured LR.

Most of my LRs have this dim as 11-1/2" to 12". What is this dim on your LR?.....Fred

That's exactly why I'm asking. It looks a hair long to me and I'm wondering if I need to adjust my pattern for my next build. The dimension is 13.5" from the breech to the point there the rear entry thimble joins its tang, or right where the RR hole would begin.

 

[Vaino]

On your next build go w/ 12"...it "makes" the LR seem more trim. Below is a Lancaster w/ the 12" dim and a 44" bbl. By the way.....did you notice that or did someone else mention it?......Fred

 

[matt denison]

A rule of thumb is that the gun should ballance at the entry hole, whether that is 12" or 13" or whatever.

 

[Vaino]

12" puts the hand at the balance point on both my Bucks County LRs w/ 46" Rice "B" weight, .50 cal. bbls and also the Lancasters w/ Rice 44" "B" weight .50 cal. bbls, although slightly more towards the butt. . The rear sight is then located on the muzzle side of my hand. BC LR shown below..Fred

 

[Onojutta]

By the way.....did you notice that or did someone else mention it?......Fred

I did. Had it judged at a familiar gunmaker's fair a few months ago and the judge told me he thought it was correct, but since that dimension is somewhat personal preference, I was curious what some of you guys thought.

 

[Pete G]

Fred, if you would use shorter barrels you wouldn't have to stand on a chair to take a snapshot... :wink:

 

[Vaino]

Thanks for your comment. At least I was wearing shoes...my toes aren't pretty.

Longrifles to me warrant fairly long bbls....although my idea on this took awhile to "arrive". Have built many LRs using 42" bbls {my shortest} which looked OK, but then I realized that longer bbls looked better and decided on 44" bbls for the Lancasters and 46" bbls for the Bucks Counties. The last few LRs have been composed of only these 2 styles.....Fred

 

[Donny]

I guess I would go over to the Longrifles site and look at pictures of originals, and determine the general formula/dimensions they used.

 

[Vaino]

Already did that......but it's worthwhile to gain some insight.....Fred

 

[Larry Akers]

Many original rifles were designed using Golden Mean proportions. Barry Bohnet's booklet The
Golden Mean an Art-historical Approach, available thru the NMLRA's website, is well worth the $10 price. He explains the concept in great detail as it applies to longrifles. Basically, the Golden Mean proportion is 3/5. This can be in any units--inches, feet, grains of wheat--it doesnt matter. So on your rifle if the distance from the nose of the comb to the entry thimble is 3 units, the distance from the entry thimble to the muzzle should be 5 of those units. Using the Golden Mean proportions produces an object that is the most pleasing to the human eye.

 

[Larry Akers]

To clarify my previous post and be a bit more to the point, to locate the rear thimble measure the distance from the nose of the stock to the muzzle of the barrel. Assume this is 48 inches (about right for a 42" barrel). We want a 3 to 5 proportion, so 3 units + 5 units = 8 units . Divide the 48" by 8 to get the length of a unit = 6". So 3 units from the nose of the stock to the entry thimble = 18". Or, 5 units back of the muzzle = 30".

Hope this helps.

 

[Onojutta]

Funny you mention the golden mean. I'm not sure that applies in this case. I came across that in some other reference material, and in my application I get the same thing for the distance between breech and ramrod entry: 18". That is about 6" longer than what seems to be the norm. To me, that would put the entry thimble way too far forward- much further forward than any rifle I have ever seen. I wonder if anyone out there builds this way?

 

[Larry Akers]

Read my post again. In my GM calculations I'm measuring from the nose of the comb--not the breech of the barrel. 18" from the nose of the comb would put the entry hole at about 12" from the back of the barrel. My guns are built using Golden Mean proportions.

 

[Vaino]

All my LRS, whether 44" or 46" bbls have the drop from the lower to upper forestock at 11-1/2" to 12" from the breech end of the bbl because it looks good. Since the Golden Mean calculations agree w/ the 12", the Golden Mean has been proven correct. Just kidding....it's a good guideline for making things look good.....although I've never used it. .....Fred

 

[Onojutta]

Read my post again. In my GM calculations I'm measuring from the nose of the comb--not the breech of the barrel. 18" from the nose of the comb would put the entry hole at about 12" from the back of the barrel. My guns are built using Golden Mean proportions.

Actually, you said "nose of the stock". Wasn't sure what that meant. But now that you say "nose of the comb" I'm a bit more confused how the golden mean works here... what is the relationship between the comb nose and length of the forearm in proportioning the forestock?
The reference material that I had in mind basically showed the relationship between the length of the barrel to the lower forearm- two parallel lines originating from about the same point to form the 3:5 proportion. If I can find it, I'll try to post it.

 

[Stophel]

I usually do mine around 12"... more or less. There are old rifles with longer and shorter fore ends. Depends on how it looks. Judge it by eye.

My opinion of using the "Golden Mean" for anything is... well... perhaps such words shouldn't be posted on a public forum.

:wink: