forming a drill or soldering one on rod

[fusil de chase]

Feeling buildy so instead of cutting a ram rod groove from the inside and then capping it I decided to try and drill it. It is short, for a 20 inch rod so it feels doable.

Went and bought a piece of 3/8ths rod and my plan was to grind a v in a 25/64ths bit and a corresponding v in the rod and solder them together.

After pondering how in the heck to get the two pieces staight I was wondering if it is practical to grind a drill/spade/cutting point on the rod? I know a 3/8th rod wont be wide enough to pass a 3/8ths ram rod but I figured if the shape I ground was red hot and I whacked it with a 5pound hammer I might smush it out to 25/64ths.

the rod I have is mild steel and I am sure it is not ideal for hardening.

Anyone have any insight on what shape I would need to grind to turn the rod into a drill? WHat would a backwoods guy in the past have done?

I am ok with this being a slow and boring drilling process.

I do not have a brad point 25/64th and the only one I could find locally was 19 dollars so I am either going to need to grind a point or use a HSS 25/64 bit. If I had a good bit I would go with the solder method and not think twice.

 

[ghostdncr]

For wood, take your 3/8" rod, heat the tip to a deep red, and let the 5# hammer fly. Carefully grinding the flattened portion into a spade-style bit will work just fine for what you're doing. There are numerous tutorials and historical documentations describing this method but if you need additional help, I'm glad to help.

 

[fusil de chase]

J.Wiliams, thanks I am glad this is doable. I will like owning a 3 foot long drill.

Not to be an idiot about this but do you figure I am aiming for this style of point

If anyone has a link to a tutorial on drill points I'd love to read it, I am searching but so far nothing.

 

[ghostdncr]

No, more like this:

The nomenclature can be misleading, as they're both called spade drills. One is just MUCH easier to grind in the basement using a $40 bench grinder. :wink:

 

[fusil de chase]

Oh good that is what I had originally imagined. Gotta wait till morning to pound away in the basment with a maul but looking forward to seeing this come together. Thanks alot I appreciate the help.

 

[44-henry]

If you are only using it for one or two stocks you could get by fine by casehardening the end. In the past it was actually a common procedure to do in machine shops for one time projects and I have used mild steel cutters to mill and turn steel with good results, maple isn't going to be any tougher. In fact, you could probably get by with just using it as forged/filed with no heat treatment.

 

[fusil de chase]

So no one was sleeping and I had a chance to heat the rod and pound it enough to widen it. Using an angle grinder and an eyeball-ometer I replicated J.williams pic. Heated it red hot again and stuck it in some water. Chucked it into my big hand drill and easy as that bored a hole in a the spruce upright of my work bench! Too cool. The very tip of the bit did deform enough to tell me I had not in any way hardened it. Still cut great though and did not tear or do anything untoward.

One thing is for sure it takes an awful long time to heat a 3/8th rod to red hot with a mapp torch.

Being an idiot I then got to second guessing (can;t have things go well) and nothced a drill bit and fit that on the rod. Bad fit up and bad soldering so it seperated after drilling and clearing chips to a depth of 10 inches in soft wood. Lucky it sepertated with enough of the bit out that I could recover it. Would have hated to mine it out of my bench.

So I am giddy enough with this new found power of deep drilling that all gun building is on hold till I build a jig to hold everything straight and square. Feeling very liberated.

 

[LRB]

You can go back from the end about 1 1/2", file the dia. to half thick as close as you can, file a V point and round the back side of said point, and you have a good wood drill. Case harden with a Kasenit type of product, and it will last pretty well. Look up a pic of the drills made for drilling sling mount holes and you will see what I mean. Chips have to removed from the hole often, but this type has always run very true for me. Here's a side view. Pay no attention to the upper section, just the blade and point part.

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/l_683000005_1.jpg

 

[kaintuck]

Buy one fromTOTW, then just copy it in different sizes....it's hard to explain the shape! But it's a rod with 1/4onit cut lengthwise???the a cone with a spiral twist ground for the point. :idunno:

I buckle down my blank, and get the big dealt out, used to do it by hand.....but it's ok by power, clean every 1/4" of travel....

Better faster easier...... :surrender:

 

[mikemeteor]

Prowler - if you do pursue attaching a drill bit to a rod, the jig can be as simple a piece of channel steel/aluminum.
Recommend welding or brazing, as opposed to soldering.... butt joint plenty strong in that case.
I notched the channel so I could get tack welds (MIG) on both sides before I moved it.

this was a twist bit for slight enlarging of already-drilled ramrod hole.
you'd want the spade bit for initial drilling.
/mm

 

[Birddog6]

For a new hole, I use a spade type bit that I ground the pointed part shorter. For enlarging a RR hole I use a std. metal cutting bit attached to a long mild steel rod.

If I solder the bit to the rod, I use a Lap Joint about 3/4" long on each piece joined. This makes it easy to keep the rod & bit aligned. Sometimes I use a carbide drill bit & drill a small hole, put my flux in the joint, put in a copper rivet & rivet it, then solder it, then dress it on a belt sander.

If I weld it I use a method similar to what Meteorman shows in his photo. Dress it on a belt sander.

Sharpness of the bit is extremely important. If it is dull & you have to use pressure, the bit will follow the easiest route (grain flow) & will not drill the hole where you want it to.

Keith Lisle

 

[Vaino]

My RR drills are joined by a turned down dia. of 1-1/4" lg of the drill shank and a very closely fitting hole in the drill rod. The ass'y is then hi-temp silver soldered. Zero runout. Of course, a lathe is needed.

The drill "point" is a flat bottom w/ appropriate chip clearance. This "point" is easy to sharpen and cuts like an end mill for zero runout of the RR hole. Visited Fred Miller some years ago and seeing he's done 1000s of RR holes, asked what "point" he used on his RR drills...he grabbed one off the wall and lo and behold, it was a flat bottom "point"......Fred

 

[Birddog6]

Yes, allot of guys use those. And it must be Precisely sharpened, or it will not drill straight......

Keith Lisle

 

[Rifleman1776]

Lot of good ideas here. I have used a rod that was simply a mish-mash of 'sorta' rasp points I cut into the soft rod. It crudely ground it's way through the wood but did the job. One advantage was it ignored a tiny knot in the wood the threw off convention drill points.
A master builder once told me spoon bits were traditionally used back in the day.
That is the style used by bagpipe flute drillers to this day. They are available but expensive, especially for a one time use.

 

[OldJoe212]

TP”¦
Pick up a copy of a book called FOXFIRE 5. This is the 5th of many in a series. Great info on gun building. Hershal House shows how to make a long drill bit like the one he uses. Very easy. I made one several years ago and have had great success. It’s slow going but I’ve never had any run-out. When I built mine, I couldn’t find a 4’+ rod so I had 2 brazed together. I used a trough like MeteorMan shows.
Also, many other great tips in FOXFIRE 5.
Good Luck, and Happy New Year to all.

 

[rscott]

Hi
A shell auger is made to drill a straight hole through end grain , I have one and they work really well . here is a link
http://woodworker.com/38-shell-auger-bit-mssu-153-314.asp?search=shell&searchmode=2

 

[Rifleman1776]

Still can't see the tip. Betcha it is a spoon bit.

 

[fusil de chase]

Wow what a wealth of knowledge. Sure appreciate the guidance/ideas.

I am going to play with this a bit (pun) before I put drill to stock but I am feeling very confident about a technique that had scared me away many times before.

Once I can drill thru 20 inchs of spruce 2x4 and have the bit emerge where I expected it I will drill my RR and you can be sure I'll post a happy, braggy pic.

I am pretty sure this singular advancement in ability will responsible for future builds.

Already starting to wonder how those germans drilled the curved hole to mount the ram rod in the butt on half stock guns :grin:

 

[Birddog6]

Well.......... :idunno: obviously with a curved bit ! :slap: :rotf: :rotf:

Keith Lisle

 

[don hepler]

I've made a lot of drills, for wood, like the one J.Williams, is showing. I use hard drill rod, from hardware or hobby shop. I really have not done any precision holes, like RR, holes, but if you grind it correctly, and pull the drill out and get the chips out, keeping the hole clean, it should work. If you use a twist drill, for drilling in wood, the drill needs to be "lipped", so the drill is not pulling as fast. It's hard to describe, a lipped drill, but you need a steady hand, and good eye, to grind a little flat on the leading, cutting edge of the bit, so it's not so aggressive, in bitting into the wood. If you look at the spade drill, the lip of the cutting edge, is negative.
Google "picture showing how to lip a twist drill for drilling brass" There are several good pics of what I'm describing. Lipped drills are often used for drilling brass, aluminum, and other soft materiels.