Fouling location

[JMinnerath]

Above in the percussion forum there has been an on going discussion about fouling.
I've been away from this for a long time.
In my 50 cal. Hawken the major fouling seems to be in the last 6 inches of the barrel.
Is there an explanation of this?
Cooling/slowing of the burn rate some 20 odd inches from the breach plug end?
Yesterday for the heck of it, I changed from my usual crisco lube to spit.
Didn't take many rounds and I was having a real hard time getting that patch and ball past the first 6 inches or so.

 

[necchi]

Your spit patch (or any patch) is picking up fouling from the begining of the barrel all the way to the bottom,
It continues to build on the patch every inch you go down,,
Don't over think it,, :wink:

Bore fouling happens EVERY shot, and piles on top of it's self every shot,, if something isn't done after each shot to maintain a consistant level of fouling in the bore, the fouling will change the condition of the bore and accuracy IS affected.
More fouling equals a tighter bore, a tighter bore equals more pressure, more pressure equals more velocity,, a change in velocity affects the aiming point of impact.
If you want, shot to shot,, one hole accuracy,, you need to maintain a consistant (same) amount of fouling each shot.
An that's the truth,, :blah: ,,it ain't rocket science,, but it is physics :wink:

 

[JMinnerath]

Right, but I'm wondering why after ramming the ball in about 6 inches with the short starter, past a really tight area, then the ball and patch will go down the rest of the bore with the ram rod smoothly.
I don't have a bore scope so I can't get a look.
Ought to ask around I guess and see if anyone around here has one I could borrow.
The rifle was used and I don't really know what shape the bore is in.

 

[ol vern]

What dose it feel like when you run a tight patch down a clean
bore?

Still tighter the first six inches?

Could be a ruff spot in the barrel or you might have choke
bored custom barrel.

 

[Bill Hall]

Is it tight in the same place when you have a clean barrel? The reason I ask is because I once owned a T/C hawken that acted exactly as you describe, tight the first 6"-8" down the barrel, then smooth the remaining travel to the breech. It did this whether the bore was fouled or not, but more so with a dirty barrel. I attributed this to a tight area in the barrel near the muzzle. The same condition may be what you're experiencing, only the fouling exaggerates the tightness, making it more noticeable when the bore is dirty. You might pay extra attention when loading with a squeeky clean barrel to see if it's a little tighter near the muzzle.

I'm told that a bore that is tighter near the muzzle is the best for optimum accuracy. Makes sense. Maybe you have a blessing in disguise. Bill

 

[JMinnerath]

OK, Bill may have something.
I just loaded the first round of the day after a good cleaning last night.
Yeah, it's tight down about 6 inches, I made a starter with a 6" shaft.
Then it smooths out the rest of the way down.
With a .490 ball, .015 crisco lubed patch, I can't push the ball into the muzzle and use the 3/4" or so short shaft I made on the starter.
Just figured that was the arthritis in my hands.
This rifle is just a standard T/C Hawken.
I don't think it was particularly well cared for before I got it.

 

[Dphar]

Above in the percussion forum there has been an on going discussion about fouling.
I've been away from this for a long time.
In my 50 cal. Hawken the major fouling seems to be in the last 6 inches of the barrel.
Is there an explanation of this?
Cooling/slowing of the burn rate some 20 odd inches from the breach plug end?
Yesterday for the heck of it, I changed from my usual crisco lube to spit.
Didn't take many rounds and I was having a real hard time getting that patch and ball past the first 6 inches or so.

Rough bore increases fouling.
Pitting.
That would be my first thought.
Fouling up the bore is not typical with the PRB.


Dan

 

[JMinnerath]

Guess I won't really know what's in that bore till I get a chance to look with a bore scope.
Never owned one myself, good ones were always so expensive.

 

[Bill Hall]

You can see a short distance down the bore with just a flashlight. If there's any pitting in the first few inches, like Dan suggested, you should be able to see it. Still could be a pitting issue. Worth a try, if for no other reason than to rule it out. Bill

 

[Robyn]

:bow: Hi
the problem you are having with tightness in the first 6 inches of the bore is more than likely the patch engraving its self into the ball.
remember that the patch has to embed its self into the ball to hold it tight thus giving the ball spin as it travels down the barrel.
if you load a ball and then pull it you will find that the ball has the impression of the patch weave engraved in the sides also you will find that the rifling lands are quite pronounced in the patten....

regards Robyn :v

 

[JMinnerath]

Hmm, I dunno. These T/C barrels have shallow rifling, and the change from tight to not is pretty abrupt.
Bill might have had something about an ID change the last 6 inches or so.
I have a good enough light to see a few inches down the bore, it looks good.
Just gotta find a bore scope to get a good look for some pitting down in there.

 

[Herb]

What powder and charge are you using? In testing Swiss 2F against Goex 2F in a .58 Hawken flintlock I built (or maybe it was a .54 Hawken caplock, can't remember), I was using heavy loads, maybe 100 grains or so, and The Goex fouled towards the end of the barrel like you say but the Swiss fouled down just ahead of the powder charge and seated ball. The barrel was either a Green River barrel or a Douglas. Here is a good bore light, I just got a new one at Radio Shack today: a Steamlight Stylus LED. It uses three AAAA batteries, good for 60 hours. Cost $14.99 and worth every penny. It will drop down a .50 bore, or a .45, and is very bright. My old one finally wore out, and I had filed down the end ring and it goes down a .40 bore.

 

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

When I got my CVA I noticed tight spots down the barrel that got worse after fouling.

I polished the bore. It is now tighter near the muzzle, as it was before, but no random tight spots.

A trick I'm using is this: Dump the powder. Follow that with a jumbo cotton ball for wadding. That takes most, if not all, of the fouling down into the chamber. That's followed by a patch with 50/50 mix of Crisco/lanolin with a cast ball seated in it.

It loads very nicely and shoots consistently.

Josh

 

[JMinnerath]

Since this is the first BP rifle I've fired since back in the '60s I'll wait till I can get a good look at the bore before I decide what to do about it.
Or maybe find someone around here who does a lot of BP shooting and have them check it out.
Anyway, not a big deal if I stay with crisco it seems.
I got started shooting yesterday but got interrupted before I shot very many rounds.
Don't rally think much of something like polishing out the bore till I know more.
I'm not a big fan of even vigorously scrubbing a good rifled bore with a bronze brush at every cleaning.

 

[Josh Smith]

Since this is the first BP rifle I've fired since back in the '60s I'll wait till I can get a good look at the bore before I decide what to do about it.
Or maybe find someone around here who does a lot of BP shooting and have them check it out.
Anyway, not a big deal if I stay with crisco it seems.
I got started shooting yesterday but got interrupted before I shot very many rounds.
Don't rally think much of something like polishing out the bore till I know more.
I'm not a big fan of even vigorously scrubbing a good rifled bore with a bronze brush at every cleaning.

Hello,

I agree. I thought you had a more thorough evaluation time. I guess I have to learn to read better!

Josh

 

[JMinnerath]

More greeze.
I actually fixed a little 5mm flex light that was in one of my old tool boxes and since it has a shaft about 6 inches long was able to get a pretty decent look at the bore down that far.
It all looks good and clean, no problem with that part of the bore.
Then a guy mentioned that it might be the lube, not enough.
That it could be burning out but the time the ball was getting about 6 inches from the muzzle.
I've picked up lots of the patches and they weren't burned, but generally were pretty dry after they'd been fired.
So, I just crisco'd the patches up good like I was frying eggs :grin:
Shot all day and never swabbed the barrel and things never got too tight.
The recovered patches look nice, good rifling marks on them and they are still a bit moist with the crisco.
It is a tight fit for the first 6 inches, but it stays the same from first shot to the last.
I've been using that Shockey's Gold 2F.
It says on the jar to use a DRY patch! I tried a few shots like that when I got home with it, man, a few shots and it would have taken a 4 pound hammer to drive the ball down.

 

[Zonie]

Just goes to show how much Shockey's Gold knows about shooting patched roundballs. :hmm:

That advice is about as good as their powder. :rotf:

One should never, ah' say's, NEVER load a patched roundball with a dry patch.

 

[JMinnerath]

Been so long since I shot real BP I can't even remember what it was like anymore.
I've just about finished the pound I bought,
I'll have to get another can/jar/whatever of the synthetic stuff for now.
Best gun shop in town had several different types, guess I'll try one of the other ones for the next pound.

 

[MikeChapin]

The only experience I have is with Pyrodex when I tried it back in the seventies. It seemed to work alright and was comparible to BP in load by weight. I went to completly black powder when I started shooting flinters. In Laramie, where I was living at the time, there were a couple of places that you could go in and pick up a pound of BP. Times have changed though.

 

[JMinnerath]

Yeah, times have sure changed!
There was a guy in Shoshoni who was a big muzzle loader supplier around here.
I'm still trying to find someone around here who knows if he's still in business or not.
I think I might have found an old phone number, I'm going to try it a little later.
Be worth the drive if he's still going, rather than ordering.