Fouling Shot

[BlackRock52]

Having trouble getting head around the fouling shot concept if I swab/clean barrel every 2 shots. Are those who only pop a cap or two and not use a fouling shot?

 

[Justin.44]

Your first shot from a completely clean bore is different from the subsequent shots where the bore is swabbed in between but far from "clean". The point of impact will likely be different on your first shot, which is why I always take a shot at a steel target or something to get it fouled before putting a group on paper. This way, the bore is starting from the same condition for each shot.

 

[morehops52]

Caps do not produce any where near the fouling of even a reduced powder load. Some of my rifles shoot to same POI with a fouled barrel as a clean one. Some don't. Now i'll get some popcorn and sit back and wait for the rest to chime in.

 

[BlackRock52]

Your first shot from a completely clean bore is different from the subsequent shots where the bore is swabbed in between but far from "clean". The point of impact will likely be different on your first shot, which is why I always take a shot at a steel target or something to get it fouled before putting a group on paper. This way, the bore is starting from the same condition for each shot.

Makes total sense and what I've been told before and have done for years. Tried doing without --just the cap(s) -- and get 7/8" 3 shot groups at 50 yards with Vernier tang and Hadley cup (Lee Shaver) and front blade. T/C Hawken .45, PRB (.430), 70 Gr Pyrodex select. Use damp patch (Birchwood Casey) followed by dry patch between shots. Can load/fire 2 without swabbing but third one is pretty stiff to load so I swab after each shot. I use the ramrod not a range rod to load but a range rod to swab.
I have not tried a wad yet but I like the idea of maybe tightening up my groups so will be trying soon. May 5 dumped 24" snow -- very wet and heavy - and range not usable yet.....(Set a new snowfall record) -- Steelhead slow too since the dump but warming a bit so hopefully will hit a good run while waiting on range

 

[dave951]

Fouling shots are definitely a thing. Your first shot from a bore that only saw a couple snapped caps will never be the same as the subsequent shots. Here's a group I shot with my Parker Hale. The "flyer" was the first shot of the group on a clean bore with only snapped caps. Look at what the rest did. Load data is on the target. Iron sights- post and notch.

 

[EC121]

Here is a target shot at 50yds. benched with my .58 Kibler Colonial assembled by Mike Brooks. The clean barrel shot is the high one then the next four went in the group. For hunting it might not matter. I hunt with a clean barrel. For me offhand it probably doesn't matter, but for target shooting a fouling shot into a practice target will at least burn any oil out of the bore.

 

[Grenadier1758]

For hunting, the fouling shot may not be necessary. When shooting for the tightest group, a fouling shot is often taken to precondition the bore to establish a consistent level of fouling in the bore. This is especially true when shooting black powder. Fouling is inescapable and needs to be controlled. When shooting for the tightest group, I fire a first fouling shot and then wipe between shots to have the same bore conditions for each subsequent shot.

Many of the black powder substitutes have a much lower level of apparent fouling. Wiping between shots may not be required with some substitute powders. Load development will determine how often one needs to wipe between shots.

Yes, there are shooters who use the very wet patch on the ball to push the fouling from the previous shot down the bore with the with the ball to maintain bore condition. They are wiping between shots too, only the procedure is different. They just say that they never wipe between shots. The wet patch may contaminate the powder, but when shooting frequently at the range, the dampening effect of the wet patch will be minimal and acceptable accuracy may be maintained.

 

[necchi]

Having trouble getting head around the fouling shot concept if I swab/clean barrel every 2 shots.

Of course you do, if that's what your doing.
You state your cleaning every 2 shot's not to maintain bore condition,, but to make it easier to load the 3rd.
The concept of the fouling shot and wiping/swab is to maintain the same condition of fouling in the bore for each shot.
Each shot deposits fouling, it doesn't go away by itself.
As said it's not necessary for hunting, shooting pop cans or gongs. It's a technique used for those that enjoy the ultimate accuracy from their rifles.
Mixing the idea of consistent bore condition with each shot, into or with the need to clean just to load another shot is contrary to the purpose of a fouling shot.
In my prime I'd get a single hole, 5 shot group at 50yrds with one or more in the X. Fixed blade open iron,,

 

[waksupi]

If possible, use two separate targets when determining where your first shot from a cold clean barrel goes. Fire only the first shot at the first target, and then move to your other target. Keep that first target, and every time you go shoot, put your first shot from the cold clean barrel into it. By the time you have shot ten shots doing this, you have a very good idea of your first shot accuracy, as compared to the fouled bore accuracy.

 

[BS]

I did a test at 100 yds. Each day for five days, I shot one clean and one fowled.

I had two groups, the clean was 7"s left of center.

This is what worked for me.

After loading the clean first ball, I swabbed the bore with Wonder Lube. Thick and messy amount.

When loaded for hunting, This need to be re-swabbed every 2 days.

Every barrel is different, but lubing the bore after loading worked for me.

If I remember right, it moved the ball 5"s to the right, so that it got me within two"s.

Or you will just need to adjust for where the first shot impacts.

 

[MAC1967]

This may be heresy . . but I think a fouling shot is not very practical for hunting. In my 50 GPR the clean first shot is only off an inch . . so for deer at 50-75 yards I simply don't do it. . a shot in the woods is not something I really want to do before deer hunting.

On my 32 for squirrels, I do a fouling shot since an inch or more difference is a miss. No fouling shot, either on my smoothbore for .62 ball w deer or shot for small game, birds etc. . . don't see the need in a smoothie.

I will say that I only use powder and a patch for my fouling shot in my .32 in the woods. Not sure if that's good or bad. At the range, I use a ball.

 

[HSmithTX]

Every rifle is different, but for me fouling shots are a hard no-go for hunting. My rifle might be loaded for a week or more. I haven't had trouble yet getting the first shot clean and cold zero'd, and frankly that is the one I am worried about. I do shoot strings to see how the gun groups and way more often than not the fouled bore shots land right in the clean cold group, but I zero clean and cold because that is the shot that matters. Clean the bore, dry the bore, load the rifle, tape the muzzle, toothpick the touchhole and I'm ready, this is usually done at the house/camp. In the field I remove the toothpick and prime, dump the prime every once in a while depending on wind and humidity and reprime. End of day dump the prime and clean the pan, toothpick back in and case it up. Until I get a rapid fire muzzleloader I think I will keep doing this. For target shooting I haven't had a need yet to dump one to get a rifle shooting well, hopefully I don't in the future.

 

[Grenadier1758]

As I stated in what I did today and to help with an answer to the fouling shot question. I brought two of my rifles to the range to see what effect the fouling shot would have on my groups.

I used two targets that I use for my spotting target for Chunk Gun Matches. One was for my 36 Cal Squirrel rifle made by one of the old gun builders in the club. It has a 36 Caliber Douglas Barrel and the Rifle has been used for the Squirrel Rifle Competition at Friendship. The other rifle was my heavy barreled Hawken Rifle that I built a long time ago. It has a 1 1/8" straight barrel. It may be a Numrich Barrel that was sold by Dixie Gun Works about 40 years ago. Looks good from a distance, but Bob Browner thinks it looks a little fat. I have won a few local matches with it over the years.

To start I wiped the bores with a wet patch wet with rubbing alcohol. After each shot, I wiped the bore with a sheep flannel patch wet with rubbing alcohol. Once, then flipped the patch and wiped again. I waited about a minute and loaded the rifle using my volume measure. All shots were from a stable rest on a sandbag. The distance was 60 yards for the chunk gun match.

Load specs:
Squirrel Rifle 36 Caliber
0.350" Speer Ball (unweighed)
0.018" Cotton Drill Cloth Patch dampened with 1 part Water soluble oil to 7 parts Water
35 grains (volume) 3Fg Schuetzen Black Powder

The Clean Bore shot was about 2" right of the group. The wind may have blown the tiny balls a bit.

Specifications for the 45 Cal Target Rifle.
Hawken Rifle 45 Cal 1 1/8" Straight Barrel 1 in 54" Twist
0.445" Hornady Ball (unweighed)
0.018" Cotton Drill Cloth Patch dampened with 1 part Water soluble oil to 7 parts Water
70 Grains (volume) 3Fg Schuetzen Black Powder

Here the shot from the clean bore is in the middle of the group.

So, my results are somewhat inconclusive. Some rifles may separate the clean bore shot from the subsequent shots and others may not.

I still take the fouling shot.

 

[LME]

Fouling shots are definitely a thing. Your first shot from a bore that only saw a couple snapped caps will never be the same as the subsequent shots. Here's a group I shot with my Parker Hale. The "flyer" was the first shot of the group on a clean bore with only snapped caps. Look at what the rest did. Load data is on the target. Iron sights- post and notch.

View attachment 220827

It happens with every M.L. I have shot. At 100 yards my first shot is about 6" high but all of the next shots are where they belong, Well most of the time. LOL! I always use a fouling shot at the range but when hunting I know where to hold for my first shot on game. From the looks of your target and comparing it to my targets it would be 50 yards away.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Dont swab, every shot goes close to the same place.
I do shoot the first round at rondy, but not hunting.
Where there is no second shot.

 

[Mulemauler]

When at a match first ball for me goes into the berm. Have found it is always a bit high and left.

 

[hanshi]

I never take a fouling shot for a number of reasons. Mainly I've never seen a need for one. I haven't tested all the rifles but the few, most fired ones, simply show no difference in the first shot from a clean barrel and a fith shot from a fouled barrel. Also as it stands now I am not as good a shot as I once was and wouldn't notice anything suspicious anyway.

And I'm a lazy sort and don't care to clean a barrel if I don't need to. When hunting big or small game and no shot was taken I left the barrel charged with the load until the next time out.