Fouling shots

[JiminTexas]

I'm new at this so please excuse me if I sound ignorant. It's because I am. I have a question about "fouling shots". When you go hunting, do you just plan on missing the first shot, shoot one off into the woods before you leave camp or does it maske that much difference at all?

 

[Stony]

Well Jim, to be honest, I have yet to go hunting with my muzzleloaders. Years on the range but nothing in the field yet. In shooting at the range, I have found as far as target shooting goes, there is a difference in a clean bore and a dirty bore. Since I worked on my accurate loads with a dirty bore, if shooting a clean bore, I end up about 4 to 5 inches at 25 yards from where I want to be. I'm probably 8 inches off center at 50 yards and no idea at 100 yards. If I were hunting, that would not be acceptable so I would probably take a shot into the dirt at camp before heading out. If I were going to get a rifle only for deer/elk hunting, I would work up an accurate load with firing a shot from a clean barrel everytime. Take a lot longer but might be worth it in the end. (This where a Renegade would probably be best.)

 

[Birddog6]

I have done it both ways. Preference now is to start with a clean bore & not spook the deer right offas sometimes we have them bedded about 100 yards from the camp in a thicket.

Missing ? Heck No......When I don't foul the bore before loading, I know Exactly where that first shot from a clean bore is gonna hit ........ :thumbsup:

 

[jtmattison]

When working up hunting loads I thoroughly swab the bore between every shot. I ensure my rifle shoots where I want with a clean bore. I don't want to be out in the woods for a day with a dirty bore, especially if it's wet outside. I've never been a believer in a fouling shot.

HD

 

Yep, work loads up with a clean bore for each shot. You will know exactly where the first shot is going.

The second shot, when hunting, is usually made offhand and in a panic so it does not count anyway!

:rotf: :rotf:

 

[boar]

I hot water clean my guns and no oil in nipple, blow air in, I oil barrel and put away. When I go hunting I run dry patch in bore ,load. Can leave loaded long time if want to. I left my gun loaded from sunday till thursday this gun season, it went right off,reloaded friday morn. Got deer on sat eve. This was a drum type(Bobcat). It comes down to knowing your gun. I have a few that you can't do this with. They usually stay in house during season. In olds days, they probualy didn't have as many guns as we. And they were more of a tool, and they knew them inside and out,when they went out hunting they could have been shot. Dilly

 

[Tumblernotch]

I agree wholeheartedly! I wipe between each shot at the range and while shooting in woodswalks. And unless I'm in a hurry (reloading for a 2nd squirrel for instance), I wipe 'er out when hunting. Whoever dreamed up the idea that you have to foul your gun before shooting is a few grains short of a full load. A little fouling won't affect accuracy that much as far as hunting goes, but the condensation and residue left in the barrel could materially affect the powder of the next load if left in the barrel a few hours. That I have seen!
:thumbsup:

 

[Birddog6]

Whoever dreamed up the idea that you have to foul your gun before shooting is a few grains short of a full load. :thumbsup:

:hmm: Dang......... I know allot of hunters that are hunting with short loads then..... :rotf: cause I know allot of guys that foul the barrel before they hunt & have done it myself many times. Not that thay Have to, just that they prefer to to insure they know Exactly where that 1st shot will be & all of them will be the same.

However, I prefer to know where that clean barrel shot is gonna hit vs. the fouled barrel. And if I don't shoot that day I don't have a dirty barrel to clean.

Also, swabbing between shots or wiping between shots and shooting a clean bore are two totally different things.

When you swab or wipe, you do so to keep the fouling Consistant, not to clean the bore...... Shooting a clean bore means the POI being different of that of a fouled bore because the fouled bore will seal off the charge better & thus the velocity is dif. and the end result is a dif POI.


Now, how much dif. does it make from fouled barrel to clean bore ? that all depends on everything involved in the bore almost. (ball size, charge, powder type, patch thickness, lube, etc.) But regardless of all of that. A wiped or swabbed barrel & a Clean bore are NOT the same....... IMHO

Now at match shooting, I have seen guys completely chean a bore before shooting again, and I mean they clean that sucker....... But this is Cleaning & not swabbing or wiping.....

 

[leslie]

I agree, consistency in all aspects of shooting and loading is the key to accuracy.I just throw in a half load of powder and discharge it then wipe the barrel then load.I wipe after every shot,so that the barrel condition is the same each time.I am no great shot but at least I eliminated one variable.

 

[biliff]

I must be one of the lucky ones as I haven't found any real difference in POI between a clean bore and a dirty one.

 

[Shooey]

Hi Jim,
With enough practice, you will get to know your rifle well enough to know where the shot is going, whether the bore is clean or not.

So if you're hunting, you'll know that (for example) with a clean bore you'll hit an inch higher than with a dirty bore (at a given range). All you have to do is decide where to set your sights. Hope this helps.

-SHOOEY

 

[Mad Monk]

If you were to shoot the gun over a chronograph you would see that the first shot out of the gun is a bit slower than subsequent shots, even if you swab between shots.

With my .50 cal rifles usually the most accurate load is 80 grs of 3F Goex behind a patched ball. That is if I fire a number of shots.

I tell the flintlock hunters around here to add a bit more powder to the charge for the first shot. If their rifle gives the best accuracy at 80 grains they may find that 90 grains for the first shot out of a clean barrel gives the same 50 to 75 yard point of impact as 80 grains out of a fouled bore.

 

[roo shooter]

I have four muzzleloaders and Iam yet to notice enough difference in POI from a clean barrel to a fouled one, I always hunt with a clean barrel so I do like the first shot to go where I aim, I just wish I could aim straight.

 

I agree with you. Especially in the ML area. The only rifle I have ever owned that actually requires (as in - must have) a foulded barrel to shoot well is my little .17 HMR. And when it is fouled it shoots very well. I only clean the bore 1 or 2 times a summer during heavy woodchuck hunting.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Well Birddog, you got me! I've done the same thing myself, so for that reason as well as others I won't mention here, I must admit that I'm quite short of a full load myself.

I like what you said about the differences between wiping between shots and cleaning. There is a good bit of difference between the two. When I'm at the range and even when hunting if I have the time, I wipe the bore with a spit patch or MooseMilk, then wipe with a dry patch every shot. It's far from clean, but the crud is out and the bore condition is consistant, at least as far as I can tell. It's clean, but not CLEAN. If you run some more patches through, they'll definitely come out dirty.

Guys in my club run the gamut from wiping like I do or just using one wet patch and some will shoot several rounds without wiping at all. I'm not aware of any thoroughly cleaning, but I'm sure some may do it.

Boy's I gotta go, Supper's ready! :hatsoff:

 

[BS]

You really have to try your gun, and see how it preforms.........they are all different!

My 73 cal. rifle shoots the same dirty or clean, the only problem is the first clean shot with the same pillow ticking patch will blow two holes thru it. [first shot clean barrel]

so.................on the first shot, I use a heavy canvas patch...........same POI as PT.

I have a 54 cal that has a 7" difference at 100yds.[clean to dirty]......I have to lube the barrel after loading..........thick and greasy. :hmm:

 

[Mad Professor]

I don't like the idea of leaving the bore dirty and often will load then hunt for several days with the same load (if luck has not been with me). As mentioned above a fouled barrel is going to pick up moisture, pitting can begin and the load can also absorb this moisture.

When I sight in I swab with both sides of a wet patch then both sides of a dry followed by a lubed (e.g. greasy w/wonderlube) patch. Its close to clean and I get the same point of impact as with a truely clean barrel, at least to the limits of my shooting ability.

If chronographed loads still show some decrease in velocity with a truely clean barrel it does not show up at less than my normal hunting shots < 100 yds in accuracy. I do use a wonder wad with hunting loads so this may also account for less variation with a less than pristine barrel (e.g. the wad still seals well with a clean barrel).

 

[roundball]

After going to the lengths that I go to so I can ensure I have spotlessly clean bores, the last thing in the world I'm going to do is intentionall foul the bore, then go sit in the woods with it like that all day.

I always sight in a hunting rifle for a single shot, and that from a clean cold barrel...and after I've taken a shot hunting and want to hunt longer, I carry 'field cleaning kits' that allow me to thoroughly clean, dry, and relube the bore before I put in a fresh load.

 

[rabjr]

After going to the lengths that I go to so I can ensure I have spotlessly clean bores, the last thing in the world I'm going to do is intentionall foul the bore, then go sit in the woods with it like that all day.

Thats how I see it too.

 

[dodgecity]

I always start out with a clean, dry bore. If I need to reload during a day's hunting, I wipe and dry the bore before reloading. I hunt with a smoothbore, and I really don't notice a difference between the first shot from a clean bore and subsequent shots from a wiped bore. I use the same system for shooting multiple shot matches, with no drop off in accuracy. When loading a clean bore, however, special attention needs to be paid to the vent to make sure it is dry and open. Same thing with the frizzen and flint...dry and properly adjusted.