Fouling with Goex + NL1000

[roundball]

Just back from a 40 shot range trip this morning...the 40 patches shown are .015" Oxyoke prelubed cotton:
Top 20 are the powder / fire side of the patch;
Bottom 20 are the ball side of the patch;

Natural Lube 1000 with 50grn target loads of Goex 3F, no wiping between shots...shows how little fouling there is and how clean the bore stays throughout the entire range session shooting 40 consecutive shots.

:redthumb:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Those patches look fine Roundball and I'm sure we all appreciate your effort in picking them up and posting that photo.
However, I and others have had very different experience with Wonderlube and the T/C version of it.
Last week I was doing some plinking with a .56 smoothbore and .535" balls. Since I didn't care much about best accuracy at the time I decided to use up some .015" Oxyoke prelubed patches which I had found useless in my rifles. On loading the third shot I noticed a very gummy area in the bore extending about a foot from the muzzle. I resorted to a hammer to force down the fourth shot! I then swabbed the bore with one saliva soaked patch and one dry patch. A .021" ticking patch with spit then loaded easily and spit wet ticking continued to load easily for the rest of my shooting session. I was loading a 28 ga. over powder wad before the patched ball in both cases.
I don't know how to account for the difference in our experiences but I know I am not the only one who has had poor results from these lubes.
I guess I can only say-- :results:

 

[roundball]

Last week I was doing some plinking with a .56 smoothbore and .535" balls. Since I didn't care much about best accuracy at the time I decided to use up some .015" Oxyoke prelubed patches which I had found useless in my rifles. On loading the third shot I noticed a very gummy area in the bore extending about a foot from the muzzle. I resorted to a hammer to force down the fourth shot! I then swabbed the bore with one saliva soaked patch and one dry patch. A .021" ticking patch with spit then loaded easily and spit wet ticking continued to load easily for the rest of my shooting session. I was loading a 28 ga. over powder wad before the patched ball in both cases.
I don't know how to account for the difference in our experiences but I know I am not the only one who has had poor results from these lubes.
I guess I can only say-- :results:

Not sure what to make about your comment "Figures don't lie but liars do figure"........I don't lie...and photos don't lie either.

I also used .015" prelubed oxyoke patches in my TC .56 SB, but I also used the recommended ball size of .550, larger and tighter fitting than the .535 you used...that's one of the differences right there...when you switched to a thicker .021" patch, you took up most of that windage...tighter fitting ball/patch combos usually result in reduced fouling, regardless of what lube is used.

The patches in my photo are typical & representative of my experience with every muzzleloader I've owned for the past 15+ years...percussions & flintlocks, .45/.50/.54/.56/.58/.62 calibers, Pyrodex RS & Select, and then Goex 2F and 3F...I even reused one of the patches in the photo this morning as I was one patch short and instead of opening a fresh bag of patches, just used one off the ground.

As much time and money as I spend in muzzleloading, the cost of lube is insignificant so I wouldn't waste a minute of my time with Natural Lube 1000 if it didn't work perfectly...

 

[Java Man]

Roundball,

I think that comment about liars, ewas in Cyotes signature area, NOT directed at your post. That's the way I read it.

BTW, nice thread and good informtion in your post above.

I normalyyh shoot as tight a combo as will load easily. But I almost always wiper every shot, if not every couple. Got in that habit back when I was seriously target shooting at Matches. Does not take long, and only costs about $.01 per wiping, since flannel is cheaper than ticking at Walmart.

Thank you

 

[redwing]

The wonder Lubes just don't work in this high dry air
of the west. It will shut you down by the second shot.
You will have to hammer the ball down.
Down in the low country it works fine. But out here
you need snot or milk. The powder will cake as soon
as you fire, the Wonder Lubes will not work on this
stuff. :redthumb:

 

[roundball]

...I almost always wiper every shot, if not every couple. Got in that habit back when I was seriously target shooting at Matches. Does not take long, and only costs about $.01 per wiping, since flannel is cheaper than ticking at Walmart.

I went though a spell of wiping between shots too...and agree it doesn't take all that much extra time...got into this cause I have to have some sort of lube for hunting, and like to practice with everything the same way I hunt, etc...not trying to 'convert' anyone...my Wife recently got a digital camera and the whole set of patches were so clean from this morning that the idea of the photo hit me as I finished cleaning the flinter...

 

[roundball]

The wonder Lubes just don't work in this high dry air
of the west. It will shut you down by the second shot.
You will have to hammer the ball down.
Down in the low country it works fine. But out here
you need snot or milk. The powder will cake as soon
as you fire, the Wonder Lubes will not work on this
stuff. :redthumb:

Actually, that doesn't surprise me...even here in NC during the colder winter months of Dec-Mar, the humidity is usually much lower than the rest of the year...and on those days, if I don't use extra lube in the patches, I'll have to clean the bore every 10-12 shots.

A fellow shooter gave me a tip about putting more lube on the patches during those low humidity days...so I nuked some more NL1000 into a couple bags of patches and it did the trick, even using 2F...so I hear what you're saying about the dry air out there

 

[Claude Mathis]

Not sure what to make about your comment "Figures don't lie but liars do figure"........I don't lie...and photos don't lie either.

That's his Signature. It's in all his posts, nothing personal. :winking:

 

[Bob J]

Thanks for posting the information and the cool photo, Roundball. :grey: It really illustrates the good results you're having with Natural Lube 1000+. You're experience with the lube and 40+ shot range sessions in a REAL muzzleloader using REAL blackpowder would make a good article for Muzzle Blasts or Blackpowder Hunting. Especially with illustrating photo! :imo: :front:

 

[Rebel]

Or maybe even Buckskinner if there is still a Buckskinner mag.

 

[roundball]

Not sure what to make about your comment "Figures don't lie but liars do figure"........I don't lie...and photos don't lie either.

That's his Signature. It's in all his posts, nothing personal. :winking:

Got it !
:redthumb:

 

[Dave K]

That is real impressive Bill! Think how clean that Goex is shooting ( I am IMPRESSED!) and think how much cleaner it would have been with Swiss! :haha:

 

[roundball]

That is real impressive Bill! Think how clean that Goex is shooting ( I am IMPRESSED!) and think how much cleaner it would have been with Swiss! :haha:

You are so bad !!!!!!
:crackup:

(not much longer until Labor Day!!)

 

[LSU TIGER]

I tried the stuff and was not impressed. In other words, it didn't help a bit! Maybe I had a bad or an old tube... Who knows. I went back to the lube I've used for years: 4oz of bees wax, 4 oz of lanolin, 4 oz of lard, and a dash of Murphy's Oil Soap. Melt it together in a new paint can (Home Depot) in a pot of hot water, and fill an Altoid's tin for the field.

 

[cayugad]

I have one rifle that I have been following Roundball's recommendations of cleaning and shooting with Bore Butter. Although the accuracy is still excellent with the rifle, I have never been able to get more then 10 shots before I have to swab the barrel out. If I did not swab, the loading becomes too hard and I fear I am not making the witness mark....

Other then that the rifle has been behaving well. I have a second comparison barrel that I clean with modern solvents and shoot moosemilk patches through. I have been able to do about eight shots without swabbing in that. Perhaps it has something to do with the weather here. I shoot Goex 3f out of both rifles also.

 

[roundball]

I have one rifle that I have been following Roundball's recommendations of cleaning and shooting with Bore Butter. Although the accuracy is still excellent with the rifle, I have never been able to get more then 10 shots before I have to swab the barrel out. If I did not swab, the loading becomes too hard and I fear I am not making the witness mark....

Other then that the rifle has been behaving well. I have a second comparison barrel that I clean with modern solvents and shoot moosemilk patches through. I have been able to do about eight shots without swabbing in that. Perhaps it has something to do with the weather here. I shoot Goex 3f out of both rifles also.

Remember to be sure we're comparing apples to apples...I'm just shooting light target loads of Goex 3F for my range sessions...50grns in the .45 & .50...60grns in the .54...you guys may be shooting full power hunting loads or something

 

[bob1961]

i did a range session this past winter when it was real dry with 38 shots and no wipeing cause i forgot my T/C #13 cleaner....i had no trouble loading and all my patches came out looking like roundballs patches in his picture and i used T/C's prelubed .015 patches....i didn't clean nothing the pan or the flint i just kept shooting till i when't home....i was useing 70 grains of shutzen powder which i have found to be as good as goex and 70 grs is my hunting load....thanks fer yer post roundball :hatsoff:............bob

 

[fatboy]

I was shooting last Sunday at the club with my .54 York county rifle 20 shots Ox-Yoke pre lubed .015 and .530 ball no wiping between shots :front:

 

[roundball]

i did a range session this past winter when it was real dry with 38 shots and no wipeing cause i forgot my T/C #13 cleaner....i had no trouble loading and all my patches came out looking like roundballs patches in his picture and i used T/C's prelubed .015 patches....i didn't clean nothing the pan or the flint i just kept shooting till i when't home....i was useing 70 grains of shutzen powder which i have found to be as good as goex and 70 grs is my hunting load....thanks fer yer post roundball :hatsoff:............bob

That's the kind of sessions I like too...
The Chief of Staff has had me doing "honey-do's" today, but I'm going to the range again early in the morning...I like to go early, get done and back at the house by 9:00-9:30am before it gets too hot & humid...if you hear a Flinter at 7:00am, that'll be me saluting the men at Concord & Lexington!!
:redthumb:

 

[cayugad]

I stand corrected... Roundball, you're right. I was shooting full powder loads of Goex FFFg. I will cut the charge back to 50 grains and see what happens on the next trip out the backdoor.. Maybe tomorrow. ::