Found a nice looking old rifle with issues (Need Help)

[Eric Bye]

That is a handsome lock, and I agree with the others who recommend fixing it. The mainspring (and even the tumbler) can be replaced by a competent ML gunsmith. One possible candidate is Brad Emig at Cabin Creek Muzzleloading in Hallam, PA: 717-757-5841. If this were my rifle I would have both locks repaired for good measure. I think you have found an interesting and desirable old rifle.

 

[SamTex1949]

GO FOR IT !!

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

UPDATE: With some help from the shop owner I have removed the lock here are some pictures. Also the front sight was found and reattached free of charge. Slight damage under end of barrel above ramrod entry area. Lock inlet area is very rought and no buttplate which from looking at other Schimmel Rifles was quite common. Sorry for the blurry photos I used the Gunsmiths camera to take them and sent them to my phone so when I screenshotted them off my email they went a bit blurry.

 

[rich pierce]

I could fix that lock but it could cost what a new lock would cost to fit a new tumbler and tune it, possible replace the mainspring. Once started down this road, may need a new sear, sear spring and so on to work with new tumbler. The tumbler may not be set at same angle as original for the cock seat. Lots of fiddling. It’s a very nice lock and desirable. You say you want to shoot it but that bore needs a lot of work. Too thin to bore out to a larger caliber. It will need to be re-cut in existing grooves or drilled out and lined. Making it a reliable shooter is at least $400 of work and you risk breaking an old stock.

 

[Murphy_Roberts]

I could fix that lock but it could cost what a new lock would cost to fit a new tumbler and tune it, possible replace the mainspring. Once started down this road, may need a new sear, sear spring and so on to work with new tumbler. The tumbler may not be set at same angle as original for the cock seat. Lots of fiddling. It’s a very nice lock and desirable. You say you want to shoot it but that bore needs a lot of work. Too thin to bore out to a larger caliber. It will need to be re-cut in existing grooves or drilled out and lined. Making it a reliable shooter is at least $400 of work and you risk breaking an old stock.

Good to know i thought that bore would be fine, do you think I should give this rifle a rest or should I keep on down this path ?

 

[springfield art]

Earlier today I was in a Forestry Training course in Harford County and stopped in a little shop on my way home that sold antique firearms. I just wanted to look around, but I got bit and it caught my eye. There was this rifle and it looked really good with a long barrel. I asked the shopkeeper if she could pull it off the wall and look at so she abliged and showed it to me. Her husband came out and told about it. The rifle is a .54 caliber, 45" barrel Schimmel rifle with a Jacob Goulcher lock. Bore is good it even holds good and isnt muzzle heavy so I decided hey what the hell I gonna buy her. Then tragedy struck. The Mainspring is worn and the lock does not function properly. He told me the lock is not the original for this rifle but is a period correct original lock that just happened to fit that he bought and installed to make her work again. The rifle was missing its original lock. The rifle's lock also doesnt not have a half cock cut into it only a full and the front sight is missing. He said he was able to proof test the rifle by striking the flint manually (he has video evidence which means he has bigger cahunas than me to do that with an original). My question is could I buy a lock and have it installed to make it work again. Like take it to a place like Dixon's Muzzleloaders and have them install a L&R or Siler lock or even do it myself ? Or is it out of the question to make this thing work. I put a deposit down just in case I cant fix it so I dont have the rifle purchased yet. I figured I would hold down the rifle until I can find a fix to my issue here. If anyone has a Goulcher lock to sell I will buy at any price within reason lol. I'll post a picture of the lock. Thank you all for the help you provide. Edit: Sorry about such large image thumbnails I posted these with my computer and may of hit a few wrong things when transferring them from my phone.
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Very interesting! I'm told Dixon's doesn't do repairs anymore, but they sure would know who to recommend. And of course Bob Hoyt could re-line or re-bore the barrel. Nice project! Good Luck!

 

[Dude]

Ok - since no one has asked yet, how many shekels to own this slice of history?

 

[rich pierce]

Good to know i thought that bore would be fine, do you think I should give this rifle a rest or should I keep on down this path ?

Almost no chance you can get a patched ball down that bore without a lot of trouble and patch tearing. It may or may not be rifling that could readily be re-cut. I do a fair bit of re-cutting of original rifling. Some are too far gone. Anything requiring more than 10 hours of my work to get the rifling functional is not worth it.

 

[BuffaloSoldier]

I'll echo all of the above, and say it sure looks well worth purchasing and making repairs as needed. Nice looking rifle!

 

[GREENSWLDE]

I have added a 1/2 cock to many re-bounding Un-metioable locks and detented them for rifles or live pigeon guns.There is normally enough metal to cut a 1/2 cock in a rebounding tumbler with Swiss knife files. ( Watchmaker's Screw Head Files.) Don't see any reason for Tungtsen milling cutters as tumblers were usually only cased even on cast steel ones.. As to main springs, you have many "Competant" spring maker on your side outside the Profession who will normally help for Beer money.If the original is there you are "Quids In" as you have all the right measurements to use. OLD DOG..

 

[GREENSWLDE]

For those not in the know a "Quid" is One Pound Sterling in Old Money.. If you have problems your side post me the old spring and I will to reproduse it in modern spring steel. I don't have many failures.. Angie must have my address some where.. OLD DOG..

 

[cynthialee]

I am on the fence back and forth on this.

Part of me thinks it would be cool to restore to shooting condition.
Part of me thinks it has served its time and should be relegated to display. (why risk breaking it?)

 

[Pete G]

I emailed Muzzleloaders Builidng Supplies they seemed to have a few mainsprings. Im waiting for their reply if so I will be one step closer.

Also try Dixie gun works; They have lots of old parts.

 

[erhunter]

Try Cabin Creek Muzzleloaders in Hallam, Pa. near York, Pa. They make their own springs and a lot of other items plus building long rifles.

 

[Malamute]

Im in the "make it run if at all practical" camp. It has heaps of history and character. Even if its not something youd go shoot a lot, just bringing it back to life and using it now and then would be very satisfying to many of us, and using it for a hunt now and then would be even better.

 

[Relic shooter]

Murphy if you had a better photo of the bore it would greatly help evaluate it's condition for shooting.
What your paying for this rifle is also a consideration. This is a project rifle, if your mechanically inclined & handy with tools it would be a labor of love. If not & the rifle has a high cost & you will need to hire the work out then maybe you will want to pass ?

I've been shooting primarily original muzzleloaders for well over 50 years , it's hard to explain the enjoyment you get from shooting a genuine piece of our history.
A good many of the bores on guns I've revived had uniform roughness throughout the entire bore, but due to the deeper rifling of that era I was able to lap or smooth the bore surface to point where they produced good accuracy & also loaded easy with the right sized ball & patch thickness combo.
Of course before doing any shooting or reconditioning I first evaluate safety of the breach & bore for any serious erosion flaws that would effect safety, the lack of erosion around the touch-hole area looks encouraging.
The additional lock photos you posted are also encouraging , looks like with a little love it will make a nice quality lock. Be nice if you could locate a knowledgeable forum member in your area with gunsmithing skills to look the rifle over for you.
relic shooter

 

[Brokennock]

This area concerns me. Looks thinner on that side than the other. Maybe it is just the camera angle.
Shooter or not, it would be good to rescue this bit of history from the potential of landing on the trash heap.

 

[stephenprops1]

Anything can be fixed, time, talent, and/or money is all it takes. It also looks like it had set triggers at one time. Is there a square hole in the trigger plate behind the existing trigger? That is a nice lock and any modern lock would be a step backwards.

I would say MOST anything can be fixed. There does sometimes come a point when it is unlikely parts can be found, it is improbable or even impossible to replace or repair. --- I work in a gun store and sometimes an old gun has to be retired and given a respectable place over the fireplace mantel.

 

[DuncNZ]

It looks like a great project rifle , Depending on the price of the rifle , the cost of bringing it back to working condition may over capitalize it's value , but if you are going to keep it for a long time maybe that doesn't matter . I'd do it , As of the moment it probably has more interest value than collector value , so go ahead .

 

[Rudyard]

While perfect bores are nice & desirable some pretty 'smokey 'old barrels can still shoot Once given a soak in vinegar & shot a few times . The Lock looks 'Right'. The no half cock is common in old US percussion rifles but dosn't seem right on a flint rifle. But its had a lot of years to get got at' Set triggers go reasonably enough with caplocks but Would seem a nuisance with a flint lock .But its a Shimel might be it suited the maker/ owner ?.And If on a range wouldn't much matter with either if your about to fire it & no plan to hunt with it ... In wet conditions even I carry a rifle at rest & a plugged vent with a quill which is the surest way to keep the charge dry & fresh primeing is seldom a limitation . (I don't span a Wheellock unless I expect a shot imminent ). Whatever its story it original enough not to be messed with just to get' a shooter' . That's my' two pennoth'.
Regards Rudyard