Frame stretch

[eggwelder]

Keep hearing about frame stretch on brass framed revolvers. What is it, and where in the frame does it commonly occur/?
what else on these needs to be looked out for, and does anyone have pictures of damage that can occur with brass frames?
now that i`m looking, i keep finding these for sale relatively cheap, and that Griswold and Gunnison guns are pretty decent looking.

 

[Musketeer]

I've never had a brass framed revolver, but my understanding of "stretch" is that it is an increase in barrel/cylinder gap over time. As the gun is fired, the barrel and arbor get pushed one way, while the rest of the gun is being pushed the other way, I guess. Another thing I've read about specifically on the Colt open-top style guns are cracks developing in the brass around where the arbor is fitted into the frame between the arbor and the hand slot. Again, this is just from my reading and not personal experience, but there seems to be an opinion among those who've owned them that Remingtons are less prone to these issues than Colts and that the problem is more pronounced in .44 caliber guns than in .36s (more powder/heavier projectile in the .44 makes this sound plausible).

 

[sawyer04]

I saw a lot of frame stretch in the early open top revolvers. The cylinder shaft pulls loose from the rear of the frame. I always contributed this to the loading lever putting too much pressure on the barrel pin and not the actual shooting. I once took it upon myself to repair this problem and if I hadn't had a machine shop it would have been near impossible. I found I didn't want that project again. Now that being said, I have seen several brass frame revolvers shoot well for a long time, but they were loaded with a bench loader. I was so much impressed that I made a bench press and load all my revolvers; unless caught in the field. I surmise a lot of those early brass were trying to be loaded with oversized ball. If the cylinder is tight and the cylinder indexes correctly I wouldn't be afraid of it, but I would invest in a good bench loader.

 

[bang]

I've seen barrel droop on colts. Excessive cylinder gap on both colts and Remington. Top strap on Remington near touching cylinder.
Most on late 60s to mid 70s revolvers.
Generally owned by people that thought they should load powder till the ball just flush to cylinder face and primarily 44 cal.

 

[sourdough]

This is a subject that never gets put to rest. Some mod on some forum should gather up all pertinent posts about this subject and make a sticky.

Brass frames do not stretch! I don't care if they are Colt type, Remington type, Spiller & Burr, or whatever. I have seen Remington 1858 brass revolver frames bent due to undue pressure exerted by the load lever/rammer when larger-than-needed round balls are forced into the chamber mouths of a cylinder that measure smaller than needed. Got to have that ring of lead to prevent chain fires, eh? Not at that expense.

Most inquiries about frame stretch concern brass frame Colt type revolvers. They are cheaper to buy (and produce) than steel frame revolvers. Unwitting buyers/shooters may opt for the less expensive brassers and think they can shoot the same loads as can be tolerated with a steel frame revolver. They can get away with it for a short while, but that is when metal dis-similarities show up.

Metallurgically, steel cylinders are harder than brass recoil shields. When brass framed revolvers are fired with loads approaching those appropriate for steel frame revolvers, the steel cylinder is driven rearward into the recoil shield, imprinting the rear ratchet end of the cylinder. Repeated use of the same loads just deepens the imprint. That increases the cylinder endplay at both hammer down and full cock, and may not allow the hammer to fully contact the cap, resulting in a misfire. At half cock it is not noticeable because the cylinder ratchet does not align with the recoil shield imprint.

Photos:

Photos:

Regards,

Jim

 

[Zonie]

There have been cases of chain firing that was caused by the exact thing you mention.
The impressions of the ratchet into the brass was so great that when the gun fired, the cylinder moved rearward far enough for the caps on other chambers to make contact with the recoil shield. If they did that, occasionally one or more of the caps went off causing the gun to "chain fire".

 

[eggwelder]

Thanks for this. Gives me an idea of what to look for. I guess those two brass framed .36s that i talked about on an earlier thread, one of them suffered from this. That’s why the guy wouldn`t disassemble them.

 

[bang]

Well the Remington brasser I saw with the top strap near touching the cylinder and cylinder gap wider at top sure wasn't bent using the ram rod.

 

[Desperate Lee]

I admit brass frames are softer than steel. Anybody can see that. What you should do is reduce your loads to the mild side, also more accurate side. The revolver will last longer and you'll enjoys your shooting sessions more. I do love 44's. Beside a good brass frame all polished up just damn looks good.
DL

 

[CAndersen]

I have a brass framed .44 have hardly shot it because of the whole “frame stretch” issue - but it sound like if I load very mild loads -
All will be good.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Yes, @CAndersen, mild loads are a good plan. Use a filler such as corn meal, Cream of Wheat, or Cream of Rice to fill the chamber. So too is a loading press where you can load the cylinder off the frame and not put too much stress on the frame.

This one offered by Powder Inc. is a bit pricey and others can be found by a Google or Bing search.

Cylinder Loader | Powder, Inc. | Master Distributor of Goex, Swiss and Schuetzen

 

[Desperate Lee]

Yes run regular loads say in the 20 to 25 grain range. Loading off gun is a good idea also. Pure soft lead is a must. I use pure black, Goex 3f. Now in steel frame guns i use T7 3f. Loose powder always. In my single shots i run Swiss 3f and am very pleased with all my handguns.
DL

 

[Eutycus]

Use a press and mild loads, pure lead and you've eliminated three of the theorys.

 

[CAndersen]

I can see where a press would be a good thing - quite a bit force to seat the round balls - all good information - thank you

 

[M. De Land]

I saw a lot of frame stretch in the early open top revolvers. The cylinder shaft pulls loose from the rear of the frame. I always contributed this to the loading lever putting too much pressure on the barrel pin and not the actual shooting. I once took it upon myself to repair this problem and if I hadn't had a machine shop it would have been near impossible. I found I didn't want that project again. Now that being said, I have seen several brass frame revolvers shoot well for a long time, but they were loaded with a bench loader. I was so much impressed that I made a bench press and load all my revolvers; unless caught in the field. I surmise a lot of those early brass were trying to be loaded with oversized ball. If the cylinder is tight and the cylinder indexes correctly I wouldn't be afraid of it, but I would invest in a good bench loader.

Bingo, I came to the same conclusion that it was the loading and not the shooting that was the main contributor in loosing arbor threading because it puts angular stress on the arbor. I have to say though that the cylinder imprinting into the brass frame at the rear also adds to barrel cylinder gap if occuring from heavy loads. This isn't really the frame stretching though.

 

[starman]

I have a Pietta 1861 Navy with a brass frame. What is considered a mild load?

 

[Zonie]

My suggestion would be something in the 14-18 grain powder load for a .36 caliber gun.

 

[starman]

We could still be wasting our money on wine, women & song.....

I have a Pietta 1861 Navy with a brass frame. What is considered a mild load?

 

[starman]

Oops! Sorry! In my previous post I was trying to quote myself to add that my Pietta is a .44. I somehow made a mistake in posting.

 

[mooman76]

Some where around 1/3 of your caliber size would be mild, so like 15 gr give or take a little.