• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

FRENCH TRADE KNIFE

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

melsdad

36 Cal.
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
85
Reaction score
0
Location
S.W. Pennsylvania
Hello everyone,

I haven't posted on here for a while, been busy working and making a few things. This is my version of a French Trade Knife. This is one of the things I have been working on, and finished a few weeks ago. I am open for opinions.

O1 Tool steel blade 5½" long hardened to 60Rc.
This is also the first knife I have done any file work on. It is nothing fancy, just a basic wave design.
The O.A.L. is 10½", the scales are black walnut with copper pins. The bolster is made of solid copper with brass pins to hold it together. The finish is 12 hand rubbed coats of tung oil.

00029096.jpg

00029097.jpg

00029102.jpg
 
That's a really cool knife. Very nice work.

But... on the name thing... it has no relation to any French trade knife I know of.
:v
 
Pichou, I think Mark Baker is responsible for the name of that style. As incorrect as it may, or may not be, it seems to have caught on with many. As you probably know Baker had one made that was loosely copied after one in Madison Grant's book, and Grant describes it as a French trade knife. Put side by side, it would not be a stretch to call the above knife, also similar to the one in Grants book. Grant dated it at 1790, to 1865. Of course, we all know Grants dating was based on much speculation. I see no reason that, that type could not be dated earlier, or at least accepted for re-enactment, with some exceptions to the pins, and bolster material, and the number of pins, as on the one above. Really, there are just too few surviving, date documentable knives from the 18th c. I see many, so called 18th c. style knives offered by big name makers, that cannot document the majority of their styles except by general features, and even some of the accepted features are questionable. As a maker myself, there is just not enough to go on, with only a few exceptions. I have yet to see a genuine English trade knife that is complete, although I don't get to travel much. The Frenchies are out there. The Doran styles. Dutch, and their neighbors. Where are all the English knives. Most all of todays knifemakers use speculation. That's about all we can do if we want to be competetive, or else we would all be doing the same knives with different names on them. How many documentable 18th c. blacksmith made knives have you seen covered with forge scale, hammer marks, crooked as a snake, and then decorated with pewter bands, bolster, ect.? I would guess none, but they are prevalent now, and completely accepted. A good smith would never have made such a blade, and a farmer smith would not have bothered with the pewter. How many originals have you seen with pewter bolsters? I would have to look again, but I don't recall any, that are 18th c. documentable. Unless a knife just has too many modern features, I think you have to give us makers a little artistic license. Also, if I remember correctly, The guy that made the one above is pretty much a beginner, but doing remarkable work. As good as many veterans I know of. He just needs to do more research on early knife features. Acually, I don't recall him saying that was an 18th c. French trade knife, just said it was a French trade knife. Would you bet your life that one much like it never existed? Pichou, if you can point out some good 18th c. knife sites for me, other than New France, I would be much obliged. I research as much as I can, but it is usually confined to the computer, and a few books.
 
A few quick comments, eh? LOL! :haha:

No I think it is a finely crafted knife. I think the cast and riveted pewter bolsters come in around 1800-ish. The fancy poured stuff more like 1850 and up.

Good sites? Ha ha ha! :rotf:
Someday I'll make one. You need about five feet of bookshelf space to get a dozen trade knives with pics, dates, and good descriptions.

Handles? There are a few, including a nearly complete Cross-L in the Minn Hist Soc collections. There is also a handle that has been ignored... the one that tapers towards the back, with a oval cross section. There is one I think in Voces From the Rapids, but most think it is rotted. But someplace I saw another that was identical and not badly decayed.

At the Rock Island site there is a handle with no knife. It looks identical to the butcher knife handle shown by Diderot.

http://artfl.uchicago.edu/images/encyclopedie/V19/plate_19_10_1.jpeg

Wouldn't the one in fig. 8 look great with a Duchon blade, the kind everybody dismisses because it isn't the Doron shape? We have the blades, dug, we have the handle dug, and we have a period pic of the two together, but officially, they don't exist, as far as the fur trade goes.

I guess I am off on a tirade-tangent? :rotf:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Melsdad, Wow, I really like that. I live close to where you do. If you're inclined to make another, I'm interested in buying it.
 
Very Nice I Would Be Proud To Wear That
Knife On My Belt. Job Well Done :thumbsup:
--------------------
Dan-L
 
Thank you all for the kind compliments. For now I am not totally interested in exacting details of the knives. I am just putting materials together that I think will compliment each other, and trying different techniques. In the future I will surely persue the more period correct aspects of knife making. What I am doing is considered practicing for me. I have looked at hundreds of knives online, and when I see something I like I would sketch it on paper, and make a pattern from there. This knife in particular I have seen several variations like this called a French Trade Knife. I think it is the handle design, and slender blade that made it a French Trade knife.
 
Pichou said:
That's a really cool knife. Very nice work.

But... on the name thing... it has no relation to any French trade knife I know of.
:v

I would like to see a different type of french trade knife if you have any pictures.
 
Melsdad, here is one of mine copied after those in that French site. 01 steel. tapered short tang. Also, if you go to Kyle Wilyards site, "Old Bethel Forge", you will see knives very similar to what you made. I don't recall if he calls them French, maybe just a pistol grip.
pennyknife009.jpg
 
Back
Top