French Type "D" Tradegun

[akapennypincher]

Anyone own a French Type "D" Tradegun, got any pictures to SHARE

 

[tg]

Probably not as there is no such thing......

 

[Okwaho]

TG is correct here.The so called French types C and D are actually Fusils fin de chasse{fine guns for hunting}as opposed to the plain Fusils de chasse{hunting guns}.Types C and D are archaelogical classifications of materials found in various sites.These guns were made by variety of makers such as Tulle,Charleville,Saint Etienne,Liege,and others.The guns made by Tulle were made under contract with the King and were NOT trade guns as were those made by the other manufacturers.Fusils fin de chasse were often given to selected Indian chiefs as well as well placed French officials.Fusils de chasse were the weapons used by the Milice and other French Canadians.Tulle also manufactured Common and Grenadier muskets for use of the Compagnies de Franches.The Fusils fin de chasse whether manufactured by Tulle or other makers were usually but not always brass mounted and of a somewhat higher quality.It is not unheard of for such guns to have gold damascening and relief carving.
Tom Patton

 

[squirejohn]

Variations in French gun nomenclature by author continues to be just as confusing as the guns themselves.

 

[Mike Brooks]

What is now refered to as the "Type D" is a little later in style than what is now refered to as the "Type C". I'd put the "Type D" styled guns after about 1740 and up to about 1765. The "Type C" guns go from possibly as early as 1680 or so to 1740ish. There is alot of variation in the quality level of the gun and it's components depending on it's intended use.
But, all of this brainy babble about what we call these guns that were in used on the french frontier still doesn't answer the man's question.
Check into R.E. Davis as they have the best French Fusil Fin on the market. I'd classify it niether a "D" nor a "C" but something in between style wise as it probably falls in that 1740 time period. The furniture of the R.E. Davis gun is of higher quality than the trade level guns.
Just found the RE Davis gun on their web site.
>>>>>POKE HERE

 

[rudy parnell]

Mike, the description and detail in the R.E.Davis Fusil states,"many of the fusil de fin were converted into American Fowlers". This stated more accurately, restocked. Could you comment further on this interesting observation...thanks. Oh, and may I say, that I would like to see a picture of a completed gun. Anyone have it? I cannot see exactly which lock is being offered here. They catalogue several locks and two different french fusil locks. I like the sturdy look of the gun but wonder if it is correct. I believe that the lines of the pistol would be longer and thinner judging from other early guns posted. Then, this is kit. Noticed that the level of skills to assemble and make the gun are addressed in the Jager Rifle, but not here...specifically. Personally I would perfer the iron hardware ...and the maple... I like more wood in the grip...just dreaming... :thumbsup:

 

Check out Hamilton's book on colonial firearms for background and photos of so-called type "D" trade guns. The Caywood site has photos of their version--just remember that few complete old guns are known, mainly dug up parts. I have recently seen a photo of an original 'complete' trade gun that would be classed a type "D" by Hamilton, but I'll be darned if I can remember where? The French imported guns all have similar stock profiles and vary mainly in the furniture used--styles of guards, sideplates and butts--and these are the things the archeologists have dug up...

 

[Mike Brooks]

You see alot of restocked french guns coming out of the new england area. Check out Glenslade's new book on fowlers. French style is very evident in new englan fowler stock architecture as well as the mounts.

Mike, the description and detail in the R.E.Davis Fusil states,"many of the fusil de fin were converted into American Fowlers". This stated more accurately, restocked. Could you comment further on this interesting observation

I like the sturdy look of the gun but wonder if it is correct. I believe that the lines of the pistol would be longer and thinner judging from other early guns posted.

These guns were very light and slim stocked. I've seen very few guns reproduced from kits today thatr are made as slim as the old ones are. Most every one leaves too much wood on, especially thru the wrist and forestock.

 

[akapennypincher]

Check into R.E. Davis as they have the best French Fusil Fin on the market. I'd classify it niether a "D" nor a "C" but something in between style wise as it probably falls in that 1740 time period. The furniture of the R.E. Davis gun is of higher quality than the trade level guns.
Just found the RE Davis gun on their web site.
>>>>>POKE HERE

 

[jim/wa]

that fusil has a 48 inch barrel is that correct seems loong

 

[Mike Brooks]

that fusil has a 48 inch barrel is that correct seems loong

That's about where they ought to be, to be PC. :thumbsup:

 

[HistoryBuff]

These guns were very light and slim stocked. I've seen very few guns reproduced from kits today thatr are made as slim as the old ones are. Most every one leaves too much wood on, especially thru the wrist and forestock.

Is there a possibility that wood shrinkage makes the orginals look slimmer?

HistoryBuff

 

[TANSTAAFL]

It is my understanding Roger's Rangers during the F&I war were armed primarly with French fusils.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I made up a fusil de chasse with a 46 inch bbl.

 

[tg]

"Variations in French gun nomenclature by author continues to be just as confusing as the guns themselves"

I think the issuew is that al the C,D and similar notations are only in reference to types of furniture found and given estimated dates of usage they are not intended to describe a type of gun.

 

[Okwaho]

Rogers Rangers were equipped with long land pattern{so called 1st model} Brown Besses with 46" barrels.There were found some cut off barrel sections at Rogers Island where the barrels were cut off.These sections were about 2-4" in length which means that a long land musket was cut down from 46" to 42" long or the length of a short land pattern{ so called 2nd model}. This was done to cure a barrel problem,the most common of which was to avoid the sharp muzzle ends in the barrels after heavy use.The so called cut back Ranger guns { Ca.28-30"} along with Officer's model besses and Bess trade guns are all FANTASY GUNS.
Tom Patton

 

[Okwaho]

These guns were very light and slim stocked. I've seen very few guns reproduced from kits today thatr are made as slim as the old ones are. Most every one leaves too much wood on, especially thru the wrist and forestock.

Is there a possibility that wood shrinkage makes the orginals look slimmer?

HistoryBuff

I agree whole heartedly with Mike here and would add that the other area where way too much wood is left on is the area under the lock on the lock panel.It should be about 1/8".As to wood shrinkage there will be a tad but not enough to really notice. Often the butt was made with about 1/16" shorter than the toe of the butt piece and this was done to protect the toe since most early guns were built without toe plates.
A really great rifle maker with a lot of years experience once told me that the biggest problem with Kentucky rifle builders was that they left on too much wood and didn't know when to stop decorating.
Tom Patton

 

[thomas]

What documentation do you have, that says all cut down bess's are fantasy guns?

Thomas

 

[squirejohn]

"Variations in French gun nomenclature by author continues to be just as confusing as the guns themselves"

I think the issue is that al the C,D and similar notations are only in reference to types of furniture found and given estimated dates of usage they are not intended to describe a type of gun.

I understand Hamiltons Type C,D classification system however his definitions re fusil de chasse and fusil ordinaire differ somewhat from that described by Tom above and others such as Bouchard, Delisle and Ravenshear. Hamilton says there were two kinds of guns traded or given to the Indians - the fusil de chasse (hunting gun) and the fusil de traite (tradegun). He further states that "...hunting guns were not for trade but primarily for arming Indian partisans"
In another publication Hamilton calls trade guns fusil ordinaires. Fusil ordinaires as described by Ravenshear and Bouchard describe the ordinaire as being somewhat different and more closely related to the grenadier.
Of course most suppliers have taken liberties with Hamitons C&D classification system probably for the purpose of facilitating marketing such as to differentiate between early and later French trade guns and Tulle hunting guns.

 

[squirejohn]

Has anyone seen/have a finished Davis French fusil? How does it balance and how much does it weigh?