Friendship Line Matches

[davidjpoynter]

I'm not trying to start a caliber war and I understand there is no accuracy forum.... I'm just looking for personal observations from those whom have attended the national shoots and have seen what the "big league boys" are using caliber wise for the unlimited offhand rifle matches. I shoot competitively at my local club and have been using a Rice .40 cal with great success but have noticed its lack of wind bucking ability. I'm planning another rifle build and was considering moving up in caliber. Any thoughts are welcome.

 

[necchi]

You wanna buck the wind?
Make it a 54.
And load it just hot enough to hear the "Crack", when it goes off.

 

[MSW]

You wanna buck the wind?
Make it a 54.
And load it just hot enough to hear the "Crack", when it goes off.

long version :: while I cannot attest to the scientific certainty of this, (inasmuch as I have no exact, experimentally derived evidentiary date in support or disprove) I can confirm anecdotally that this is a well reasoned consideration of ballistic fact

short version :: makes good sense to me!

really - ask any sniper - they would much rather shoot a heavier projectile, all else being equal.

 

[George T.]

I agree in fact the 54 has the ability to reach good velocities and has good ball weight. If you go to a 58 the mass is there but ball speed falls off. Again I agree that the 54 is probably the best choice.

Geo. T.

 

[Wes/Tex]

At one point, some of the big named writes were hard at marking the .54 as the max bore size where you could reach 2000fps velocity with out excessive volumes of powder. Considering bore volume, etc. this may be true. If so, I'd assume it'd probably be the best bore size for bucking wind as well. Never felt the need to zip a ball that fast 'on purpose'.

 

[Bill/Ms.]

To answer the original poster's question, most of the top shooters at Friendship are shooting .40 caliber rifles (Green Mountain barrels) using a .400 round ball, Teflon patching, and 50-65 grains Swiss fffg.
Be Well,
Bill

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I knew shooters that had different offhand rifles for different scoring methods. If the score was by center of ball, one used a 40 and the other a 38. If the score was by the highest score ring broken by the hole, they had super huge caliber offhand rifles made specifically for very light charges. As I recall one of the guys had an extremely light weight 69 caliber rifle he shot with 30 grains. Those barrels would have exploded with enough powder to make a "crack." As I recall, H&H made the big bore light weight barrels on special order.

Those guys were strictly offhand shooters and usually cleaned up the awards.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I knew they ere shooting 40 caliber Douglass barrels in the early seventies. My nephew still uses his. Glad to hear that the 40 still is the caliber of choice since I am not a "bigger is better" fan. :idunno:

 

[Rifleman1776]

In the hands of a good shooter for offhand matches, the .40 is the way to go. Learning to read the wind is a big part of successful competition shooting.
I used to shoot buffalo matches/cross sticks. I used a .45 but it was definitely handicapped against larger calibers for the reason you mention. The most popular, and consistent winner, caliber was, far and away, the .50. It provided a balance between wind resistance and low recoil. When shooting all day long the recoil can be a very tiring factor. That is why the .54s and .58s have a low popularity rating.Plus, these days you are also contending with the scaricty and expense of lead and powder. If the .40 works for you, stick with it. Unless you just want a new gun. That factor trumps all other considerations. :grin:

 

[fleener]

It all depends on what game you are playing at.

I have several .54 cal and love them. 2 of my .54's are very accurate rifles and I have won plenty of medals with them.

I also have a .40 that is a wonderful shooter as well and it certainly has its fair share of medals to its claim.

My go to rifle right now is a .54 cal.

If I am doing much shooting past 75 yards I would without a doubt grab a .54.

Consider having both...... My first long rifle was a lyman GPR in .54. I had a custom barrel in .40 cal made to fit that rifle. The lyman is not a tack driver in .54, but it certainly is with the .40 custom barrel.

Fleener

 

[davidjpoynter]

Thank you all for the insight. I really don't NEED a new rifle but :grin: I have this outstanding Allen box lock and it needs a use. I'm still going to mull this over but I think I'm leaning more towards a .45, if anything just to give me a warm fuzzy. In my mind it'll handle the wind better and that's were the matches are won really. I could also go to a little larger profile with the barrel and make the rifle pull double duty as a light bench gun....... Decisions, decisions, decisions!!!

 

[Richard Brinkman]

Mr. Grendel, just a few more thoughts on this post. I have been following this along thinking about building a 40 cal rifle for offhand shooting myself. I have shot line matches for over 40 years and the 45 cal rifle was my choice. Shooting Douglas, Green Mountain, and Bill Large barrels and they all shot great. I never felt handicapped by the 45 over the larger calibers no matter what you shoot you have to learn to read the wind. So I got out my old Lyman BLACKPOWDER HANDBOOK copyright 1975. In the back there are some ballistic tables and they don't show 40 cal's but did list some others above and below the 40. Here are some numbers for wind deflection at 5 mph at 100 yds.

cal velocity Wind deflection
.350 1800fps 7.49"
2000 " 6.99"

.445 1800fps 5.79"
2000fps 5.25"

.495 1800fps 5.16"
2000fps 4.62"

.535 1800fps 4.77"
2000fps 4.24"

Just looking at those numbers the 40 cal would be somewhere around 6 to 6.5 inches of defelection at 100 yds in a 5mph wind. That's not much of a wind go to a 10mph and the deflection doubles. One question is just how well do you see? I don't see open sights nearly was well as I use to, under absolutely perfect conditions can you really see a inch or two over open sights at 100 yards especially offhand? I can't anymore and less ball, less powder, less recoil and a lighter rifle sure would feel nicer on my shoulder.

RB

 

[fleener]

Look forward to seeing your box lock when you are done with it. I have built .45 long range rife and a .54 fast twist hunting rifle with my two actions.

Fleener