Frizzen stall or not

[Loyalist Dave]

Irrespective of the "gun" used, it's safe usage is dependent on the "awareness" of the shooter

When you hunt with your flintlock, you are depending on a small piece of metal, the tip of the sear, to remain unbroken, and thus hold the cock from striking the frizzen until you pull the lock into the "full cocked" position, where it continues to hold the lock's action, until the trigger is pulled.

A hunter may pull his lock into the full-cocked position in a quick manner, while keeping an eye on the quarry, and bring his piece up to his shoulder and sight down the barrel. Now if moisture has caused a swelling of the lock mortise, and the interior wood prevents the sear from moving into the notch for the full position... the hammer stall will keep the lock from causing an accidental discharge when the hunter releases the cock to move his hand to the trigger, and the lock doesn't remained fully cocked.

If the tip of the sear has been damaged so that it will not hold at full cock, but engages enough at half cock to hold the lock at that position, the hunter may not know of the damage. Thus when shouldering the rifle and pulling the lock to full cock, when the cock is released so that the hunter may reach to remove the hammer stall, the cock will fall and again, an accidental discharge will not happen. I've seen locks that had damaged sear tips, that seemed fine but would not reliably hold at full cock. Some dropped immediately; others would old for a second or so...

Finally, for those who go aloft to hunt, should the worst happen, and the loaded flintlock is dropped, it will probably travel butt first toward the ground, with the muzzle pointed upward at the hunter. If the cock is struck by a branch or in some cases a climbing rung, as the gun plummets to the earth, the sear may snap and the piece fire. The same is true if for some reason upon impact with the ground, the lock fails to remain at half-cock due to the jarring impact...again it will discharge upward... toward the hunter...unless the hammer stall stops it.

And finally, surely we have all heard of the saying "...going off half cocked"??? Is this thought to be some fanciful saying...or perhaps it was a common enough thing that it crept into the vernacular?

There are many, I am sure, who choose not to use it, but it is not a case of overcaution for those that do choose to use the hammer stall.


LD

 

[George]

I have to ask...how do you do that? :idunno: Do you just have a memory chocked full of these reference materials...some kind of computer index you search on? If you don't want to divulge your secret, that's OK!

No secret, and not very sophisticated. I've been collecting stuff for quite a while from various sources, and I sorta/maybe/kinda categorize it into about four types, but very loosely so. I can usually remember that I have an item somewhere in the mess of more than a thousand pages, but not always in which specific file. All the files can be searched for key words quickly and easily, so it's usually not a big problem to locate it. If I can remember a proper search term, that is. In this post, for example, I couldn't remember if the items mentioned "hammer" or "stall", had to search all files for both terms. If I can't come up with a proper search term I'm in trouble, and that sometimes happens.

In the early days I just filed the content because of my personal interest, didn't always record where I got it. Bad idea, and I eventually learned better. I still have a fair bit of material like that, though.

Spence

 

[George]

I assume then that you refuse to use modern guns, centerfire or rimfire. With either of those, cocked and with the safety on, only a small piece of metal keeps them from firing, and dang if I can figure how to put a stall on either of them. :haha:

Spence

 

[Matt PA]

Pretty sure our entire camp uses rifles equipped with one....We spend our days hunting the mountains of north central PA doing traditional deer pushes. These are almost always through thick laurel choked cover which can easily slip into the lock and yank on the hammer even if you are being careful.
For us these are looked at as "must have" items.

I hand make all of mine out of fairly thin supple leather and they are custom fit to each lock.I stitch one side and then just extend the stitching enough to braid and attach to the trigger guard area. I think they look pretty nice and worth the peace of mind.

 

[Jaeger]

Dave: I'm not sure how you're interpreting the old phrase "going off half-cocked". I'm pretty sure it means going into battle or trying to shoot with your gun at the half-cock (safety) position.In other words, not ready or properly prepared. I do not think it refers to a gun "going off" or discharging at half-cock. Just so we are clear.

 

[S.Kenton]

I use a frizzen stall too as a measure of safety...

 

[George]

I'm pretty sure it means going into battle or trying to shoot with your gun at the half-cock (safety) position.In other words, not ready or properly prepared. I do not think it refers to a gun "going off" or discharging at half-cock. Just so we are clear.

The old boys weren't clear about it, apparently. :grin:

The Pennsylvania Gazette
March 18, 1731
From Lancaster we have also the following melancholy Account, That on the 26th of February, one James Hendricks riding in the Wood, near Susquehanah with his two Sons, in pursuit of Game, as they pass'd in a narrow Path among the Bushes, the Father's Gun (which would fire at half-cock and had no Guard to the Trigger) went off and shot his Son James in the Back.

The Pennsylvania Gazette
May 23, 1771
We hear from Chesterfield, in New Jersey, that on Tuesday, the 14th Instant, was suddenly summoned hence, in the 18th Year of his Age, by the accidental Discharge of a Gun (which it was supposed went off at Half Cock, by a Person attempting to remove it from the Place it stood in) Mr. EDWARD PAGE, jun. only Son of Mr. EDWARD PAGE, of that Place.

Spence

 

[palonghunter]

I don't use a frizzen stall. I carry on half cock, frizzen down, pan full. If the weather is wet I use a cow's knee to protect my lock from the elements.

I've seldom had a problem that wasn't related to operator error using that setup.

 

[roundball]

Irrespective of the "gun" used, it's safe usage is dependent on the "awareness" of the shooter

When you hunt with your flintlock, you are depending on a small piece of metal, the tip of the sear, to remain unbroken, and thus hold the cock from striking the frizzen until you pull the lock into the "full cocked" position, where it continues to hold the lock's action, until the trigger is pulled.

A hunter may pull his lock into the full-cocked position in a quick manner, while keeping an eye on the quarry, and bring his piece up to his shoulder and sight down the barrel. Now if moisture has caused a swelling of the lock mortise, and the interior wood prevents the sear from moving into the notch for the full position... the hammer stall will keep the lock from causing an accidental discharge when the hunter releases the cock to move his hand to the trigger, and the lock doesn't remained fully cocked.

If the tip of the sear has been damaged so that it will not hold at full cock, but engages enough at half cock to hold the lock at that position, the hunter may not know of the damage. Thus when shouldering the rifle and pulling the lock to full cock, when the cock is released so that the hunter may reach to remove the hammer stall, the cock will fall and again, an accidental discharge will not happen. I've seen locks that had damaged sear tips, that seemed fine but would not reliably hold at full cock. Some dropped immediately; others would old for a second or so...

Finally, for those who go aloft to hunt, should the worst happen, and the loaded flintlock is dropped, it will probably travel butt first toward the ground, with the muzzle pointed upward at the hunter. If the cock is struck by a branch or in some cases a climbing rung, as the gun plummets to the earth, the sear may snap and the piece fire. The same is true if for some reason upon impact with the ground, the lock fails to remain at half-cock due to the jarring impact...again it will discharge upward... toward the hunter...unless the hammer stall stops it.

And finally, surely we have all heard of the saying "...going off half cocked"??? Is this thought to be some fanciful saying...or perhaps it was a common enough thing that it crept into the vernacular?

There are many, I am sure, who choose not to use it, but it is not a case of overcaution for those that do choose to use the hammer stall.


LD

No questioning the logic of your summary...and its also why modern guns have safeties routinely designed into them...safeties...IN ADDITION to the fact that people are SUPPOSED to 100% practice safe gun handling.
And I submit that anyone who believes they are a perfect, error free human being who 100% of the time practices complete gun safety measures without fail, even if they should trip and fall, is simply out of touch with reality.

Case in point regarding the mechanical aspects of our locks...no one could be more pleased with their locks than I am with the several Chambers Deluxe Silers that I have used for a few years now. But one lock less than 30 days old had it's full cock notch flake off while I was operating it in the garage one day.
Had returned from a range trip, cleaned the ML and lock like I've done hundreds of times, reassembled everything, installed a new leather & flint in the lock, and when I went to pull the cock back to full cock to knapp the flint, the hammer fell back forward to half cock.
Tried it a few times, pulled the lock back off to see what was going on and out fell a tiny little sliver of metal that was the full cock notch from the tumbler.

Others can certainly do as they please regarding any such safety measures, but to wholesale discount it as something that has no purpose or benefit is really off the charts...
:wink:

 

[hanshi]

I have "hammer stalls" on all my flintlocks and use them in the bush much a rb described.

 

[Britsmoothy]

When I drive to my hunting ground I depend on a itybity white line in the middle of the road to prevent a huge heavy projectile traveling the opposite way! Sometimes I also walk down the stairs without the light on!
B.

 

[Vaino]

Those who use this "frizzen stall" seem to have an awful lot of "what ifs"......have hunted w/ a flintlock w/o a "frizzen stall" since 1977 and have never had a mishap. Shooting flintlocks is a "grown up" endeavor and the shooter should be educated and aware of how a flintlock functions.

Of course w/ some of the 2nd rate flintlocks out there, a "frizzen stall" might be the "lesser of 2 evils".

With my Chambers' flintlocks, wouldn't even think of using a "frizzen stall" which is a modern after thought that just complicates shooting a flintlock.....Fred

 

[Greenmtnboy]

With my Chambers' flintlocks, wouldn't even think of using a "frizzen stall" which is a modern after thought that just complicates shooting a flintlock.....Fred

Ya Fred all but one of my many flintlocks have Chamber's locks, all are strong and dependable. The only one that dosen't have a Chambers is a short 62 cal "running gun" called "Little gripe"
It has a Queen Ann's L@R( loose and rusty) lock and I and Coyote Joe have spent way to much time tuning that Piece "O" manure lock.
If ever their was a gun that might need a frizzin cover that would be "Little gripe"
But I love her so. She has Harvested many a grouse and turkey over the years and is my go to "Trekkin" gun when I am on a scout.I just have to treat her like a Little gripe and not expect to much out of her.
You know a fun gun.
:hatsoff:

 

[jackpine54]

I have never used one, and don't see why I would ever want or need to.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I assume then that you refuse to use modern guns, centerfire or rimfire. With either of those, cocked and with the safety on, only a small piece of metal keeps them from firing, and dang if I can figure how to put a stall on either of them

.

And of course the sear systems and safeties on those modern rifles are exactly the same as a half cock on a flinter's lock, and the sears on flintlocks aren't all from cast metal parts, and all modern weapons have exposed hammers, and there haven't been any added safeties to say Winchester Model 94's nor Marlin 336A, or the Rossi or Uberti lever actions.... :shake:

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

With my Chambers' flintlocks, wouldn't even think of using a "frizzen stall" which is a modern after thought that just complicates shooting a flintlock.....Fred

A "modern" after thought? Funny, I thought Spence showed it was at least a thought two centuries ago...of course I have no idea what you mean when you write "modern".

LD

 

[Vaino]

Sorry....I meant to say..."modern mindset". The couple of sparse references you mentioned were for military use.....no reference asre civilian use.

The "modern mindset" doesn't accept the simple ways of the past.....although they did work for centuries.

I use just plain hot water to clean my MLers and the bores are immaculate...but, perhaps that's too simple and many prefer all sorts of concoctions that didn't exist in the past. More complicated....you bet......Fred