Full length bedding

[FlinterNick]

Wondering what you use to paint the barrel channel? The one original I’ve taken apart was almost black under the barrel and the lock mortise. and I’d like to simulate that

That sounds like a tar finish. Kibler sells tar chunks.

 

[WashingtonCounty]

Not a huge fan of doing a full bending on a muzzle loader. If the intention is to free float the barrel that’s going to take a lot of arca glass and some skilled work with resins and release agents.

On my guns I use arca for repairs, and gaps if needed, but i haven’t used it in years. The last time I used it was on a Miroku charleville (which I’m restocking now) because stock had broken a few times at the rammrod entry area. For me it was always a last option to use arca glass.

I prefer a more organic method and use caranuba wax mixed with mohawk wood filler wax, I melt Them into a tin and brush on to the stock while its hot, let dry and I use a cotton mop bit to shape it out. The Carnuba wax leaves a hard almost glass like shell but is much easier to remove or scrape out. While it wont add much strength to the channel it helps keep it tightly fit.

Now if you took out too much in the barrel channel and you have some large gaps as you had mentioned, i suppose arca glass can fix that problem or you can shim the barrel channel with veneer wood.View attachment 107372

I do pretty much the same thing for minor inletting or checkering boo-boos. I make it up with shellac flakes, wax, and spirit stain. Your idea is way easier. Also use it behind the tang where it’s helpful to leave 0.020” to prevent splitting. I hate splitting;-). Also use it for filling gouges in furniture.

 

[FlinterNick]

I do pretty much the same thing for minor inletting or checkering boo-boos. I make it up with shellac flakes, wax, and spirit stain. Your idea is way easier. Also use it behind the tang where it’s helpful to leave 0.020” to prevent splitting. I hate splitting;-). Also use it for filling gouges in furniture.

That’s an interesting formula, I’ll have to give it a try.

I also try to burnish wax into the end grains. Nose-end and pretty much where there’s raw grain, even the lock mortise I use a small dowels dipped in the wax to really get it in there.

 

[DuncNZ]

If you want to shoot in National or International competitions you will find that glass bedding is a complete no-no .natural products like wood glued in with a natural glue are permitted . I believe the old time makers weren't too concerned about accurately bedding octagonal barrels . I bedded a Pedersoli Tryon with a compound made from charcoal dust and pine resin heated and mixed . It worked perfectly , that was 30 years ago and I believe it is still going . I bedded the face between the patent breach and the tang , with the bedding on the tang , and that made a major improvement to accuracy .

 

[Cpt Flint]

If you want to shoot in National or International competitions you will find that glass bedding is a complete no-no .natural products like wood glued in with a natural glue are permitted . I believe the old time makers weren't too concerned about accurately bedding octagonal barrels . I bedded a Pedersoli Tryon with a compound made from charcoal dust and pine resin heated and mixed . It worked perfectly , that was 30 years ago and I believe it is still going . I bedded the face between the patent breach and the tang , with the bedding on the tang , and that made a major improvement to accuracy .

NMLRA regulations make no mention of bedding procedures.

 

[Artificer]

NMLRA regulations make no mention of bedding procedures.

That's true, but International Muzzle Loading regulations forbid anything other than period bedding. So, they allow hide glue and wood shims.

Gus

 

[DuncNZ]

NMLRA regulations make no mention of bedding procedures.

New Zealand ones do or maybe did

 

[HighUintas]

@dave_person ,

I did a search of your posts on this topic and couldn't find the answers to the questions I have on full length bedding. When you bed a barrel with acryglass without flock being added, how narrow of a gap on the side flats can you get away with and still be able to get adequate coverage and squeeze out of the acro glass?

I am nearly finished in letting my barrel and the barrel is not a really tight fit and it lifts out of the channel easily, but the Gap is extremely minimal. I want to bed it primarily for strength, but I spent so much time on my inlet, I don't really want to do anymore scraping on the sidewalls.

The other question is on whether or not the transfer color I'm using, hi spot blue, which I think is the same as Prussian Blue, would prevent adequate adhesion of the epoxy to the wood if there is a good bit soaked into the sidewall wood in the channel. I started out using too much of it and I'm wondering if I really need to scrape it out if I go to bed the barrel. I scraped it out once and that was a mistake because it loosened up my fit more than I thought it would.

 

[oldwood]

What's the reason for bedding your barrel. If I was building a modern cartridge rifle , I would only bed the action and free float the barrel. Bedding is something unneeded on a m/l gun. More necessary for accuracy , is to make the barrel pinning lugs longitudinally sloppy , so the fore stock can move longitudinally on the barrel. In near 160 gun builds , unless the forearm is cracked ,etc. , no bedding required.

 

[HighUintas]

What's the reason for bedding your barrel. If I was building a modern cartridge rifle , I would only bed the action and free float the barrel. Bedding is something unneeded on a m/l gun. More necessary for accuracy , is to make the barrel pinning lugs longitudinally sloppy , so the fore stock can move longitudinally on the barrel. In near 160 gun builds , unless the forearm is cracked ,etc. , no bedding required.

I would like to do the full channel and especially breech for strength, but I think I will actually need to do the breech because I unintentionally cut too far in to the breech area on a couple of the flats. I think cutting out the other wood there would move my barrel too far back in relation to everything else.

 

[oldwood]

If you make the bedding loose enough that you can remove the barrel easily from the stock , should be ok.

 

[DuncNZ]

More necessary for accuracy , is to make the barrel pinning lugs longitudinally sloppy , so the fore stock can move longitudinally on the barrel.

I have wondered about tight pins not allowing the hot barrel to grow, therefor causing the barrel to warp slightly , enough to move the point of aim , How much length do you give them to move , The thickness of a pin or more ?

 

[oldwood]

I use 1/16 wire pins ,and once the hole is made for the pin in the lug, I just take the drill and elongate the hole in the lug . So simple but so necessary , especially if using thinner barrels like 7/8" and 13/16/ '. oct. Also , tiny pins are not as visible in the stock, so perfection in drilling is not as critical. I won't tell if you don't. My current source for good springy wire pin stock , is those little marker flags used on construction sites , and in farm fields. They are .070 thick ,and 1/16" wire pins are about .064 thick. The flag wire is a touch larger than 1/16th , so the correct drill size helps. ........ Back 1973, a friend was teaching a class in a local High school shop , to build m/l rifles. He copied a John Bivin's Bicentennial long rifle using a home made precarver. He used 6 or 7 , Getz ,44" .50 cal. "C" WT. barrels , all things identical. After the guns were finished , the ones pinned tightly , woudn't shoot accurately , until the pinning slots were elongated. I built one of the copies that had elongated pin slots , and my .50 was very accurate. Shot competition w/it for many years.........oldwood

 

[Artificer]

The other question is on whether or not the transfer color I'm using, hi spot blue, which I think is the same as Prussian Blue, would prevent adequate adhesion of the epoxy to the wood if there is a good bit soaked into the sidewall wood in the channel. I started out using too much of it and I'm wondering if I really need to scrape it out if I go to bed the barrel. I scraped it out once and that was a mistake because it loosened up my fit more than I thought it would.

Not Dave, but either blue WILL cause adhesion problems in the area it is on the surface of the wood. Instead of scraping it more, I would use Q tips dipped in Acetone to get most of it out of the channel. Just don't slosh or touch the Q tip with blue on it to the surface of the wood outside the barrel channel.

Gus

 

[HighUintas]

Not Dave, but either blue WILL cause adhesion problems in the area it is on the surface of the wood. Instead of scraping it more, I would use Q tips dipped in Acetone to get most of it out of the channel. Just don't slosh or touch the Q tip with blue on it to the surface of the wood outside the barrel channel.

Gus

I had thought about doing that as I thought the acetone might pull the oil/grease in the blue out of the wood.

Thanks!

 

[Artificer]

I had thought about doing that as I thought the acetone might pull the oil/grease in the blue out of the wood.

Thanks!

You are most welcome.

Gus

 

[Johnny Tremain]

We made the wood so thin on the front of my rifle, we glassed it all the way down to the lock.

 

[1BadDart]

My .40 build is for 25 yard off hand matches and my plan is to bed the tang/breech plug and the first 1/3 or so of the barrel. For my modern rifles I use J-B Weld Marine epoxy. For release agent I've used shoe polish and Johnson & Johnson paste wax with good results.

 

[DuncNZ]

I use 1/16 wire pins ,and once the hole is made for the pin in the lug, I just take the drill and elongate the hole in the lug . So simple but so necessary , especially if using thinner barrels like 7/8" and 13/16/ '. oct. Also , tiny pins are not as visible in the stock, so perfection in drilling is not as critical. I won't tell if you don't. My current source for good springy wire pin stock , is those little marker flags used on construction sites , and in farm fields. They are .070 thick ,and 1/16" wire pins are about .064 thick. The flag wire is a touch larger than 1/16th , so the correct drill size helps. ........ Back 1973, a friend was teaching a class in a local High school shop , to build m/l rifles. He copied a John Bivin's Bicentennial long rifle using a home made precarver. He used 6 or 7 , Getz ,44" .50 cal. "C" WT. barrels , all things identical. After the guns were finished , the ones pinned tightly , woudn't shoot accurately , until the pinning slots were elongated. I built one of the copies that had elongated pin slots , and my .50 was very accurate. Shot competition w/it for many years.........oldwood

Thanks for that most useful information Oldwood. I have a .50 John Bivins 1770 rifle with a New Zealand walnut stock and iron mounts and a Colerain barrel . It is my go to competition rifle . I will have to pull the pins and measure them and get the appropriate drill bit and be very sure I make the holes absolutely parallel so there is no creep up or down , just back and forth . Then do the other 4 . I will use the pins that are already there , I just have to take them out and measure them then find a drill bit , or 3 to fit .

 

[oldwood]

I've talked about this before. If I have to bed a cracked forearm , bed a forearm cap , or whatever , I use common super market grocery bags for release agents. When release agents came on the market , from Brownells , I used them with some success on restocking ctg. rifles. Soon as muzzleloaders came my way , I experimented with Brownell's products , and found them unnecessarily expensive. Free bags , and cheap epoxie , good enough for muzzleloader wood repairs. Why spend $40+ for a kit , plus shipping? Directions.......Cut a grocery bag in strips big enough to wrap a gun barrel snugly , and tape the top seam w/scotch tape. Make sure the coated barrel slips into the barrel channel. Pour the mixed epoxie into the barrel channel , and squeeze the barrel into position. Don't clamp tightly , you might bend the barrel. Soon after the epoxie hardens ,remove the barrel , and strip out the release plastic. Have used this method for 30+ years with excellent results.........oldwood