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Gathering Info on Smoothbores

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Caywood Type C .62

round ball: 0.600", 0.010" Wonder Lube patch, 60-75gr. 3F Goex

turkey: 80gr. 3f, 4 Circle Fly o/s cards, 1 1/8 oz (by volume) lead #6, 1 o/s card

waterfowl: 80gr. 3f, cut in 1/2 Circle Fly pre-lubed fiber wad, 1 1/8 oz Bismuth #4 (by volume so probably a bit heavier), 1 o/s card
 
Round ball:
Gauge 20, ball size .600, patched YES (Yes/No), Patch material COTTON/thickness .015 Wads NO(Yes/No) Wad material NA, Powder granulation,2F Powder Charge weight 100GR, velocity (if known)

Shot:

Gauge 20, Shot size #6, shot weight 1 1/4 oz small game; 1 3/4 oz turkey, wad composition two 1/8" lubed felt , Powder granulation 2F, Powder charge weight 50Gr small game; 75 gr turkey, velocity (if known)

Keep in mind you're asking this during prime hunting season...a lot of us hunters are a little busy, which may cut down on quick-turn hunter responses. :grin:
 
Round ball:
Gauge20, ball size .600, patched yes, Patch material/thickness: cotton .015 Wads Yes Wad material card stock, Powder granulation 3f, Powder Charge weight 75, velocity unknown

Shot:

Gauge 20, Shot size 4,6,or 7.5, shot weight 7/8 oz., wad composition fiber (but on top of shot), Powder granulation 3F, Powder charge weight varies from 70 to 85, velocity unknown

I have run these loads over a chronograph but get erratic readings, possible because of the distance I am placing the chrono from the muzzle. The round ball loads are okay most of the time but the shot loads, with the wad in front, are all over the place. I am still developing loads for this trade gun and am focused on shot pattern density.


Good study by the way, thanks for posting your findings.
 
Gus, the Honourable East India Company's 19th century published load was 4.5 drams/125 grains in the percussion musket with a .685" ball which is what I use in my ex-mutineer's 10 bore HEIC percussion musket with either the above paper cartridge for authenticity or a .755" ball over soft felt wads with cream and a thin soft over ball wad for accuracy. Neither suffers from fouling in normal use and I use a cheap musket powder and would reduce the load were I to throw away good Swiss powder in it.

The Ordnance service load from 'The British Gunner' 1828 is 5,5 drams/151 grains for a flintlock which allows for the lock's pan filling and pressure loss through the touch hole giving much the same result as the above percussion load. The author (Spearman) suggests that these could do with being reduced by 1/4 but the HEIC retained the 4.5 dram load.

Lovell later reduced the bore to .733" for those other than infantry who would not fire the same number of rounds in an action so their windage with the standard .685" ball reduced from the infantry .070" down to .048" but of course the paper wrapping took up some of the windage so tight .002" paper double wrapped reduces the windage by another .008" so there is some wriggle room even with authenticity. They were never lubricated.

The HEIC percussion muskets were sighted to 140 yards with a full sight and 100 with a fine sight which is about right with mine.

Not flintlock but the above does show the HEIC standard ball and the relationship to the equivalent flint arms.
 
Very interesting. Thank you.

During the very early part of the WBTS, Virginia still had flintlock "English Muskets" in store and issued them to some our Commonwealth troops, until more modern Rifle Muskets could be procured or taken from the enemy. Those "English Muskets" were probably left over from the War of 1812, but I have never found documentation on what size ball and powder charge they used with them at the start of the WBTS.

Gus
 
Firstly here is some historical background...
"A Voyage to Georgia, Begun in the Year 1735", Moore, Francis, London: Jacob Robinson, 1744.

"“I observed here a kind of Moss I had never seen before; it grows in great Quantities upon the large Trees, and hangs down 3 or 4 Yards from the Boughs; it gives a noble, ancient and hoary Look to the Woods; it is of a whitish green Colour, but when dried, is black like Horse-hair. This the Indians use for wadding their Guns, and making their Couches soft under the Skins of Beasts, which serve them for beds. They use it also for Tinder, striking Fire by flashing the Pans of their Guns into a handful of it, and for all other Uses where old Linnen would be necessary."

Spence

From other threads...

54ball said:
I was very impressed.

I gathered a whole plastic grocery bag of dead Spanish Moss. I looked for the dead stuff close to the ground and on the ground. If it's a Olive gray, it's still living. Dead Spanish Moss looks like brown hair.

It's really strange stuff. It's not really a parasite as it only uses the host tree, usually an oak; as simply a place to grow. It steals no nutrients from the tree.

I pull off a little of the moss, pick out all the big leaves and sticks; and roll it into little balls between both palms. While rolling the balls up dirt and contaminates fall away leaving a tight and stringy ball. I'm shooting a 28 so I made most of my wads about 12 bore size.

I had a tin with a olive oil and beeswax mixture, mixed to the hard side. I rubbed the moss balls in his mixture and found they take and hold the wax lube easily.

I loaded powder, wad, ball and wad on top. I upped my charge from 80 to 90 grains. I have found this load to be at least equal to a PRB.

I shot a few PRBs until they took a little effort to load. I switched back to the wads without swabbing the bore and the first shot in the fouled bore took nearly the same effort as the PRB. The second was easier the third was was like loading a clean gun. So it seems these wads lube and clean the bore to a point.

I'm going to check my bore and if it's a true 28 I'm going to try some .55s with these wads instead of the .530 I'm using now. Hopefully that will be even more accurate.

Another thing I noticed,shooting 90grains with the wads the gun makes a noticeable Crack along with the boom that echoes off the hills and hollers.

Another thing, waxed and oiled, the wads seem to be fire resistant as I found a spent wad powder blackened but not smoldering. I could have rolled it up and used it again.

This load does well with shot too. Local lore says the Creek Indians used this load in their trade guns................


I'm proud of my 13 year old son in so many ways but last week he made a heck of a shot with his Carolina Gun.

A couple of weeks ago he finally got to shoot his Clay Smith type G Carolina for the first time. On it's very first shot he knocked the X out of the ten ring at about 30 yards. I almost put it back in the case;you know the whole confidence thing, but we shot it some more to make sure that first shot was not a flier.

His next four shots, two holes nearly touching about 3 inches above the X; two holes touching a couple of inches below the X, and his last shots were just to the right of the X. I shot it once to get a feel of it and hit right at the X.

I was very impressed with his shooting and that Clay Smith Carolina. I did not have to touch the sight adjustment. Pretty Impressive for a brand new gun.

The next weekend we hunted a pretty hot field from a shooting house, hoping he would take his first deer. We had a deer on the patch, a resident doe and he missed an opportunity as a nice spike walked right by the house. We had trouble getting that long gun out the window. I left it up to him but advised him along the way.
Quote:
Alright he is in range now.
Ok son where he is at right now your pushing it on range.


It was still pretty early so he decided to watch the deer and see if anything else showed. We heard an oink and the deer left in a hurry. The woods behind the field were flooded and we could hear a large group of hogs crossing through that water. Quickly the field filled up with with about thirty hogs. Most the size of a regulation football.

He picked out a big red adult bore. The range was pushing it so I was on it too with my scoped centerfire rifle. He shot his gun vented into my field of view. The instance he shot I shot as my view from the scope turned white. It was pretty much a ragged volley. As the smoke cleared he could see the hog down and he let out a big Yes! This was his first big game harvest.

As we were coming out of the house I let him know I had fired also. I need not to have shot.

We got to the hog and there was a small hole with a trickle of blood from his neck. But in the center of his shoulder was a .20 bore sized dent.
Quote:
Dang son, did it bounce off.


We rolled him over, that .61 ball went through him like a freight train and exited through the ribs just be hind the opposite shoulder. The 30/06 exited the front of the opposite shoulder. I need not to have shot at all.

I stepped it off, 72 strides, very close if not right at 72 yards. That has to be one of the best smoothbore shots I have seen and the best smoothbore shot I've seen on live game.

20 bore Clay Carolina Type G
.61 ball too tight for the thinnest patch
Over powder wad of Lubed Spanish Moss ball
Over ball wad of lubed Spanish Moss ball
On top of 80 grains of Goex 2ffg
primed with Goex 2ffg
 
Sir,

Love your YouTube stuff. Thank you for doing those.

Ball:
70 grains ff (Graf & Sons private label - Wano Schwarzpulver)
.610 bare ball (Gun Works Three Rivers brand)
1/8 inch over powder wad (Circle Fly)
1/4 inch fiber wad soaked in Crisco (Circle Fly - cut in half)
Notched over shot card (Circle Fly)

Shot:
70 grains ff
70 grain measure of #5 magnum shot (approx. 7/8 ounce)
1/8 inch over powder wad
1/4 in fiber wad soaked in Crisco
Notched over shot card

My goal was to keep the load column the same for both shot and ball. This works for my fowler--your mileage may vary. As always
I remain

Yr. Hmble. & Obdnt. Svnt.,

Longeye
 

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